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Shadowmourne's design.


Shab

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Let's talk about shadowmourne!

 

There's no section for item balance, so I decided to put it in here.

 

Basically the item is an offensive item that gives you attack speed, crit chance, movement speed, energy, and the passive. The passive spawns a shadow of the enemy hero that attacks them for 3 seconds. The shadow does 75% weapon damage of the target.

 

Now, who would you get this against? That would be the good old carry heroes, right click heroes like Nova, Kerrigan etc. I don't know all of them. Regardless, the items price is 3615, which is a little bit on the low side for a top tier item, or a little bit on the high side for a mid tier item. What kind of heroes would you get this item on? It's not cheap enough to buy on any hero, so that means it's an item you would generally get on carry type of heroes. In other word, a counter item to carry heroes, for carry heroes. And here's the silly part, if you as a carry go up against the other carry in a fight, and he has a shadowmourne and you don't he will have 75% more damage then you, since in such a theorycrafting example you must assume that the farm is equal. The fact that the item also gives offensive bonuses such as weapon speed and crit chance makes it a no brainer to get the item. Meaning that the design of the item is pretty silly. There really isn't any reason not to get it on a dps hero, and any dps hero benefit from it, since all of it's stats are percentage based, and none of them are stat based. I would understand if it was a defensive item, or a caster item, seeing as it scales into the late game, and that's the part of the game casters and tanks/initiators will start having trouble with the carry heroes, but when it's purely an offensive item like it is, it's just... overpowered. There's no other way to put it.

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i was talking to ecko a week or so ago and he wanted to change the stats it gave because he didnt think they made sense with the passive but he wasnt quite sure what to change it to so i suspect there will be a change to it in the near future :) hope that helps

Good to hear. I think it has to be something that is utterly useless on dps heroes, so that using 1 item slot on the item will actually not be as beneficial as it is atm.
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Hmm 6 weapon speed always help carrys... 450 mana is very useful for a low mana pool (agi and str carrys have low mana pool) 20% weapon speed is useful on a carry, 20% crit chance too, the item dont give atributes or damage but it give what a carry need, mana pool for the spells, weapon and move speed to pursuit and rape, and the crit chance also help to crit builds, i feel fine Shadowmourne

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I really don't like this item.... I don't know why

 

Me either... I think there should be another way to counter AA heroes better. And I don't think it's working as intended if AA heroes get it... Unless of course they're countering other AA heroes? Should be another way to be anti AA similar to Shrapnel or at least to reduce damage taken per second?

 

Like maybe a resistance item in which if a hero doesn't change targets, and aims at the same target, each attack decreases in damage either linearly or exponentially. That would be a f un item

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Me either... I think there should be another way to counter AA heroes better. And I don't think it's working as intended if AA heroes get it... Unless of course they're countering other AA heroes? Should be another way to be anti AA similar to Shrapnel or at least to reduce damage taken per second?

 

Like maybe a resistance item in which if a hero doesn't change targets, and aims at the same target, each attack decreases in damage either linearly or exponentially. That would be a f un item

There are plenty of counters to AA heroes in the game already.

 

1: Teamwork.

2: Get ahead and stay ahead, they're weak early game, abuse it.

3: Win the game before they get strong.

4: Pick them off with your initiation spells, they're squishy all game long.

5: Just flobing focus them down, if they have to run, it means they're not attacking.

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Don't know if this is intended, but these Shadows are so extremely strong because they proc items.

The Shadow alone can kill AA heroes in a few seconds if they don't run away!

What can you do against that as a DPS hero?

Have good positioning, and get the item yourself. There's no way you wouldn't get the item on any kind of dps hero, thus it is broken.
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I LOVE this item on lord z.

 

Boosts all the right stats AND gives you a shadow.

 

Now, sprint in, ring your target, summon the shadow.

 

Two on one, protoss fun!

 

Hope they don't change it really. I like it and havent experienced anything game breakign about it.

 

playing lz is hit or miss chance for me especially with the ring :(

rory with a lockbox is really awesome more awesome with shadow's vortex

lockbox->molo->bounce ->1 attack->stevie

or something like that, ive tried 1 attack ->lockbox -> usuall

its fun lol

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Got this item on Egon yesterday, it raped. If people don't understand how broken and item that boosts your dps by like 300-600% on a support hero is, then... well, people are stupid. There is no reason not to get this item on any hero, it's just too good to miss out on. On some heroes it should be core, while on others, such as egon and drake, you can wait till 6th slot to get it.

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What I would like to know is, if you have a shadow mourne and the AA carry has pyre, contam, 100% Crit chance etc, do those factor in to the Shadows attack on the enemy cause if that's the case, then its plain broken, if however its just 75% WD of the enemy just doing physical damage its not horribly broken as armor counters it... Would like to know if anyone know this :)

 

 

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Hehe that would be sooo funny :D but then, I feel 75% is abit high is it not? I mean say a Nova has 450 damage and say 100% crit chance, so the shadow will have a damage of 337.5, attack a max speed assumed 0.55 roughly 2 hits per second, now most likely the Nova will have a khali blade, doing 220% crit damage each crit (1.5+0.5+0.2) doing crit damage of 405 true damage on top of 337.5 which will be reduced and is there for 3 seconds, doing 6 hits maybe, if the enemy Nova doesn't run, there fore 2430 true damage... Instant killing most carries (this is only the crit damage, no physical or spell, if she had a pyre, yet) seems pretty broken that one item that cost hardly anything can counter all AA heroes build except tank builds, and let's be serious, if ur doing that on AA heroes, your doing it wrong...

Then again the stats the item gives are weird... But ye the item needs to have a defined role, if its there to counter AA heroes, then give it tanky stat, but also don't make its unique a death trap for AA heros... I mean atm it has the potential to kill a AA hero, just by AA-ing a carry once... This can't be right...

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Oh, I forgot to write it here, but I also told this to red.

 

If you're going to keep shadowmourne the way it is, the shadow/illusion needs to have lower dmg if its' a melee hero, because else melee carriers will suffer WAY harder than the ranged once that you actually struggle to get to. It's a lot easier to defend a ranged carry than a melee one, since the melee one has to be in your face to do damage.

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So with the current nerf to the item, its now at 50% damage, how do people find it?

I for one have been playing a few pubs to test it (as its banned inh) and have notice that I don't die to this item anymore, and in a way it directly counters pyre builds, without spell resist, so I would like to know what people think is it worth un-auto-ing this item?

 

Though, have 2+ shadows attacking you is a bit ridiculous, maybe limit the amount of shadows that can attack a hero to 1. As if everyone of you team buys this item and attacks one hero that hero basically has 2.5 of himself + a team attacking him... Not too cool lol... Also I like shabs suggestion :)

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I really don't see how you consider it broken.

 

It feels to me like AGI Carry players think it is super OP and broken, while the rest of us finally have a way to punish AA glass cannons.

Are you serious? I have explained how it is broken time and time over, you just refuse to realize that you're wrong, and have no clue what you're talking about. Can someone ban this troll already?
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