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[1.37] Maar's Sap


FruitNinja

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I propose that maar's sap gets lower int scaling (back to 175% or maybe just 200%) and that frost wave is buffed to 55% to compensate. His sap can almost match a fist of gaia with the right items.

Speaking of which, I need to try cyprus with gravity's edge ^^.

Right now without needing to get boots he can almost one-shot people. The only universal solution is to tase him and then chainstun him with lots of CC (stunbaton, small hadron), in which case he becomes totally useless. Not QQing as it's totally possible to shut him down, and easy, in fact.

 

However, I don't think that any hero should be so powerful that you have to completely stop him from doing anything in order to actually kill him or else there is no way you can win, because it becomes a game of "who can tase the maar first." The only hero who can legitimately kill him would probably be shadow (nova can kill him because of the state of crits right now. Shadow is hard to target by design) and maybe raynor because of the long stun. However, during a team fight, maar can just nuke someone else. And even shadow is vulnerable to heat wave spam.

 

I think that some heroes are too dangerous not to tase, but nobody likes getting tased... So they're not fun to play in team games.

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Taser costs 2100.

 

Like I said, it's easy to shut him down. If you read the second half of my post, you'll notice I'm not saying he's OP overall, just that he's too powerful if not silenced. Taser is hardly an engaging aspect of the game. It doesn't even have a satisfying shooting effect.

 

The problem is that by design having heroes that need to be tased to stand a chance against isn't really fun. I was in a game today where there was a maar who was instakilling people with sap. So I just got a taser + stun baton and my shadow ally took him out twice. Then he ragequit. But I think this is more of a highlight of the game's issues rather than an example. Once maar is silenced, he's useless and helpless. The only real solution to dealing with a taser is to use debuff immunity or tase the taser-er. But Parallax is now less reliable as it only procs every few seconds rather than on-demand (I think?). Either way, as mohandar I could just blink in, trigger the parallax with my autoattack, and then tase. Which just makes having a maar built as a carry useless.

 

This is basically the case with all INT carries. Once you silence them, they become useless and die soon after, especially with the timescale change. it makes playing them rather boring because you have to just hope that the enemy can't tase you.

 

I'm just trying to say that this is a problem, not because it's too powerful, but because it's an uninteresting part of the game. There's a reason that you see entire teams of AGI heroes in pubs--casters are much easier to nullify than AA heroes, regardless of how powerful they are otherwise.

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The stupid thing is maar can do like 2k damage in 2 seconds but it has counters, where as nova can go like 5k damage and it has no counters. Barbed is hardly a counter as any nova should get leech and just get darwin it will do nothing. :(

 

So i think if maar gets a nerf nova need a bigger one before the maar nerf comes out.

 

But it is fun to 1 shot a aa hero with maar and making them rage. ;)

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My opinion is that MAAR is too strong in some and too weak in others. I never see anybody use Barrier or Frost Wave. EVER.

 

My opinion on changes:

 

MAAR's Sap needs:

-A cooldown (5 seconds?)

-Damage nerf

MAAR's Barrier needs:

-No stupid 30-second barrier cooldown (10 if you really have to have a cooldown, 30 is FAR too long)

MAAR's Frost Wave needs:

-No channel time

-Increased slow

-Increased radius

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MAAR's Sap needs:

-A cooldown (5 seconds?)

-Damage nerf

 

This I agree with.

 

MAAR's Barrier needs:

-No stupid 30-second barrier cooldown (10 if you really have to have a cooldown, 30 is FAR too long)

 

Agreed.

 

MAAR's Frost Wave needs:

-No channel time

-Increased slow

-Increased radius

 

No, this thing is a monster early-game and still slows by a lot late-game. It has low cooldown and relative mana cost so buffing it would make it OP. The slow is already good and the channel time is fine because of the range (he can hit you from across the river when laning mid).

 

I think it could use a scaling buff but don't buff it too much, please, or it'll be overpowered. It's good as a spammable crowd control that really messes up teamfights.

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I am surprised people are complaining about SAP in this patch as ihan no longer grants 240 intelligence which was a key item in making SAP builds work well. Also, stacking int and only int on MAAR might be a good build for scoring lots of kills against new useries, but any semi-knowledgeable player knows of several different ways to render SAP useless (taser is an easy choice but there are a lot of others too).

 

For MAAR to two shot a hero with sap now, the targeted hero needs to be extremely squishy and also during that time MAAR can't be silenced, stunned, or delayed from hitting his target through kiting tactics. He also is pretty much feed for boros, shadow, zeratul, and nova with a pure int build since they can essentially kill him before MAAR can respond, and strength heroes now can have so much health and spell resist late game that they can just laugh at him and then counter him.

 

Don't get me wrong, MAAR is a good hero and can be very good if played properly as a support hero but compared to all the other instadeath abilities in the game right now, MAAR's ability to be an effective assassin is limited to say the least, especially since he sap is completely dependant on int items (which require a lot of farm) for it to be useful at all.

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I actually think MAAR should be the last hero looked at for balancing.

Cyprus' R is WAY too strong at the moment.

Crits (-> Boros, Nova) are WAY to OP.

 

A really well played maar is good. And hard to find.

 

Whether or not other heroes are imbalanced or not has no bearing on whether or not Maar is balanced or not.

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They should bring back some old cooldowns like the old version of maar [Although lower depending the ability] It is rather annoying but its MOSTLY just sap that is the main problem.

SAP int is really high. Rancor's Snipe deals 150% + Int off of 260+50% weapons but everyone knows majority of it comes from 150% int, maar has 225% int which is EVEN MORE, and has a incrediably low low CD with no channel and also Leech on it which heals him like crazy. The high int is probably so that the ability scales better throughout the game and it does at first but it spikes MASSIVELY. They should add a fix damage with +125% int. Maybe 100+125% Int. deals nearly same damage early game and spikes fairly fast at the same rate as cyprus final without the base Damage. Also CD should be like 6 seconds instead of basicly 3 seconds. One more thing, the ability should have less effect on creeps so you just can't cheap heal as much. [75% on non-heroic?] IDK i dont see maar play alot but if hes fed, he can be a huge pain. Its only maars SAP that i think is a problem. otherwise watever.

 

[Edit] I'm writing this as I'm playing cyprus with a maar on my team. The maar is dealing 1600 damage per sap and with cooldown reductions added, he can use it around once every 2 seconds which is just PULVERISING the enemy. My final deals slightly more than that around 1800 damage (without pillars) with nearly same int. Well damn thats alot... even with 150% int it will still deal around 1000 damage... Hmmm... healing 1600 HP too. like seriously DAMN.

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