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Good Day All,

I am happy to announce that the AoS League Season 2 will start this coming Sunday 5/9/2021 and will go through 8/29/2021. Starting on 5/8/2021 and until after the end of the day on 8/29/2021, All eligible IH games played up until that point will count towards your seasonal ranking. For season 2, we will again be handing out special prizes to participants!

  • All Players who make it onto the leaderboard (have played at least 10 games during the season) will receive a league badge and colored name based on their ending Rank Points.
    • Top 3 Ranked Players: Grand Masters
    • 1900+: Masters League
    • 1650 - 1899: Diamond League
    • 1550 - 1649: Platinum League
    • 1450 - 1549: Gold League
  • In addition the the above badges, the top 10 ranked players will receive a title on Discord lasting until the end of the following season.
  • The Top ranked player will receive all prizes listed above and will also receive a special 3-month Discord Nitro Subscription! (https://discord.com/nitro)
    • For the last two prizes, a player must be a current member of the community to receive them.

Terms and conditions:

  • Please read through the rules listed under the rules tab on the AoS Data Results spreadsheet and become familiar as they will be enforced. 
  • For a game to count towards your ranking, the screen shot posted in #elo-match-results and all rules followed.
  • All Players starting Rank Points will be normalized at the start of the season (this will keep the same order, but shrink down the gaps between players points to give everyone a fighting chance.
  • Each player will go through 10 placement games prior to make it on the leaderboard, these placement games will yield double Rank Points for gains and losses. (an average of 40 gained or loss per game instead of the normal 20)
  • Ranked Players on the Leaderboard that have not played any ranked games for more than 15 days in a row will have their rank points start to decay at a rate of -5 per day, so make sure you play regularly.
  • Playing Eligible IH games on Sundays will yield +3 additional Rank Points per game
  • Holding any of the following achievement badges will grant players +20 to their rank points as long as they hold the badge: Dualist, Sharpshooter, Iron Fist, Sorcerer Supreme, Surgeon, and Juggernaut.

You can keep yourself updated with players’ rankings here.

Thanks to everyone who participates in IH games and we hope you enjoy the season. 

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Decay is going to screw me but I am personally very glad to see that and other tweaks to the AOS Elo system -- I think these changes will help create more equal matchups.

I'm looking forward to the new season!

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Honestly i hate all the most important changes to the elo system. Last time it completly made me lost motivation for it and i just stopped playing inhouses (in a true competetive way). What i mean is, that the system just favorites the players who have the most time and play the most, it is not true elo/mmr system that shows actually how good a certain player is, team or whatever. I will be really harsh, but for me its an abomination at this point. Calling it an elo system, which is just a lie.

To represent that: 

  • Ranked Players that have not played any Elo ranked games for more than 15 days in a row will have their rank Elo start to decay at a rate of -5 per day, so make sure you play regularly.
  • Games played using the Elo Team Creator will yield +2 additional Elo per game (win more and lose less!)
  • Playing Elo IH games on Sundays will yield +3 additional Elo per game
    • This will stack with the Elo Team Creator Bonus, so Elo Team Creator Games on Sunday will yield +5 Elo

That means you can basically "cheat" 10 - TEN extra points for a game, which is ABSOLUTLY ABSURD. In average points for game are about propably in between 20-30 points.

It screws entire balance up. Even 2 points "for nothing" can ruin entire mmr/elo system as a represantation of skill lvl. Here you can not only get additional 10 points, but you also lose 10 less. LIKE WHAT? what a joke what people turned and forced the system to be.

I will sound like a loser (i don't care) but with a normal job and life i dont even see sense for me to compete in the season, comparing to people who can play 10 games every day, every weekend.

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@SayMyName I think you are slightly misunderstanding.

There are 2 Seperate (but related ELOs)

1. The True ELO determines selection within the Team Creator.

2. The "Vanity" Elo determines where you finish on the leader board and only impacts end of season rewards. These are affected by bonus ELO for playing during the events on Sat and Sunday. And penalties for rage quitting etc.

Edited by Yaldi
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???? What i dont understand. There are no 2 seperate elo's. Where do you see that?

The entire thing is called "AoS Elo League Season 2" which is misleading. It should not be simply called elo. I agree it is some sort of a league and it should be called something like a league, but not as an elo system. It is as simple as that.

That entire thing feels for me almost like giving away money in politics election to bribe people even if it fks everything and is extremly bad in long term for everybody, but whatever.

I mean why not then like +100 points for each winning match and 0 for losses? I think people would like that. Or even better +500 points at thursdays between 10am-14am australian time, so it benefits mostly people that are avaliable at this period of time. Do you start seeing how stupid it is?

 

The entire thing basicaly shows who could play the most in this period of time and put highest amount of time. Still it doesnt equal skill lvl but dedication and maybe possible progression in this period of time (but true progression is not only spamming- play game, but its split between reasearch, critical thinking, fixing problems, testing together with playing, improving and repeating all over everything). And with an entire thing named like this people WILL say the top players of league are strongest and best (which they can be, but they can also not be, many spots will be completly wrong because of the distorted and corrupted system.

 

Whatever i know this debate is heavly pointless and it wont propably change anything. So sad.

Edited by SayMyName
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There are (trust me we have discussed all this with Justice), if you look on the Team creator tab to the right of it there is a Player list that lists their ELO rank. This ordering is based on the "True ELO" which has no added bonuses.

It is hard to show just now since Justice has reset things for season 2 but the best example is Megastar you can see on this list he was Rank number 5 which is purely based on him winning and losing games so when you use the Team creator it is unaffected by any "bonus" ELO

However, on the Leaderboard he wasn't within the top 5 at the end of season 1 due to some unfortunate disconnects.

The Leader Board has various modifiers to incentivise or discourage various behaviours such as using the Team Creator over Captains Pick, join in the events and most importantly discourage rage quits.

We had this exact same thing last season and I don't have the data but looking at the current ranks it doesn't look like this has changed the final leaderboard apart from the losses from rage quitting/DCing etc.

So long story short, the ELO will still make balanced teams but this system also gives incentives with regards to the Leaderboard by being involved and behaving well in games.

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15 hours ago, SayMyName said:

The entire thing basicaly shows who could play the most in this period of time and put highest amount of time

Not necessarily true.

You can see the percentage of games players participated in, and higher participation does not mean higher rank on the leaderboard. Some of the top players did not participate as often as you may think, very little in fact, but when they did they played better than everyone else. Your standing in the leaderboard ultimately has to do with your win/loss ratio vs the win/loss ratio of others (but also not breaking the rules of the competition). Quality not quantity.

Of course the more you play, the better your understanding of the game's present meta and the habits of players becomes which inevitably could improve your win/loss ratio, but not necessarily. This comes down to you as a player and your ability to adapt, improve, and out-compete.

Like Yaldi said, we've discussed this at length for many weeks, and a lot of research and work was put in by Justice and others to make this as fair and enjoyable for everyone. Is it perfect? Probably not, but it is better than its preceding seasons and it will only improve with player participation.

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On 5/5/2021 at 4:14 PM, SayMyName said:

???? What i dont understand. There are no 2 seperate elo's. Where do you see that?

The entire thing is called "AoS Elo League Season 2" which is misleading. It should not be simply called elo. I agree it is some sort of a league and it should be called something like a league, but not as an elo system. It is as simple as that.

That entire thing feels for me almost like giving away money in politics election to bribe people even if it fks everything and is extremly bad in long term for everybody, but whatever.

I mean why not then like +100 points for each winning match and 0 for losses? I think people would like that. Or even better +500 points at thursdays between 10am-14am australian time, so it benefits mostly people that are avaliable at this period of time. Do you start seeing how stupid it is?

 

The entire thing basicaly shows who could play the most in this period of time and put highest amount of time. Still it doesnt equal skill lvl but dedication and maybe possible progression in this period of time (but true progression is not only spamming- play game, but its split between reasearch, critical thinking, fixing problems, testing together with playing, improving and repeating all over everything). And with an entire thing named like this people WILL say the top players of league are strongest and best (which they can be, but they can also not be, many spots will be completly wrong because of the distorted and corrupted system.

 

Whatever i know this debate is heavly pointless and it wont propably change anything. So sad.

You dont see two Elo's because I only ever show one because if you show two people get confused. For example, Spooky currently has a true Elo of 1514.08686, but this is not the number you would see on the leaderboard If he were on it (nobody is yet). The number you would see there would be...

1579.087 (Leaderboard Elo) = 1514.08686 (True Elo) + 10 (Elo game bonus [5 games with 2 pts each]) + 15 (Sunday game bonus [5 games with 3 pts each]) + 40 (badge bonus [Spooky currently holds 2 of the 6 badges for best win rate for a given role])

The Leaderboard Elo is used to determine your rank on the leaderboard and prizes at the end of the season. The True Elo is what is used to determine your rank on the Elo Team creator and is never modified by any of the external bonuses. So yes it is a true elo system and that hidden elo does somewhat show your true skill over a long period of time if Elo draft is used a significant portion of the time (which is why there are so many rules around when it can be skipped for captains draft)

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Do you calculated also how much points less he lost? 

All i know that previous season from rank 6-12 i dropped to below rank or something around 44 when stopped playing (after point changes, also thx afk penalty points for not playing longer period). Thats what happened. Not even mentioning how overall points in the league skyrocketed to like 2k. So like your theory ends here. Its so easy to earn points. Infalation is real.

From what you wrote you can earn around 30 points (+10 for a game) and lose 10 (-10 points). If you want you just play on weekends and you need to be basically above 33% winrate (which is abysmal) , which means you just need to not be complete anchor to your team, cause you gonna still win some games by somebody other carrying you, or other people having also one weaker player. And if you are somewhat on average lvl or similiar lvl to others you just simply get points if you play many games. Yes you wont be top 1 if you are low lvl, but you will be above people that are comparable to you. If you have people that are on top that compete with each other on similar lvl, the guy who got more time to get points wins, especially on weekends. When you try to test something, example a theory, a system, etc you need to think how it can be abused, in this system you need to compare not two guys that are inflated, but the guy that have no extra points to the most inflated guy. And thats when you can see how unfair it is or can be. Whatever. Majority of people i see are blindly happy about this fact so i just quietly accept it as in democracy system.

I won't write about this anymore. I dont wanna talk about this. What you said and numbers you presented only proves what i mentioned (ye even actually ~100 points is a lot, even better when the system calculate teams and rest from the true elo not the inflated numbers so it doesnt even try to correct itself even slightly. If you say those points dont matter then ok give yourself, mother, somebody, a guy on second place free additional 100 points when the season ends just like that and see how other people react and feel about it?). Anything you say won't magically bend the math that there is in it. I said everything i got to say and mostly i know its pointless. You guys made your decision. Gl hf

Edited by SayMyName
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  • 2 weeks later...

I would like to add a view point from the back of the bus community in AoS pertaining to the new season.

The no ELO for mix lobby games I feel (and I've spoken to some other players that share this sentiment) is a questionable move for the health of the community. Particularly newer players and even some of the mid pack players. The reason being, the lower level captain draft games depended on some elites/mods coming down from Mount ELOlmypus and mixing with us lowly mortals, while still counting for some ELO. This was a two-fold benefit,

1. some of the less skilled players got to play with and be coached by higher level players, which in turn helps them be better players without the higher level players wasting time on a non ELO game.

2. It helped get struggling lobbies on NA and/or lower level IH games actually get off the ground.

Emerging players need to be able to play with more experienced players to actually develop into better players, you can't just have noobs banging their noob coconuts together all day and expect them to become better players.

The no ELO for mixed lobbies has created an atmosphere of only being able to play for ELO in an Elite lobby, and the Elite players are using the "I can't earn ELO with you in the lobby" as yet another excuse too exclude players they don't think can ever or will ever be able to play on their "level". It has in effect removed the possibility of most of the low/mid ranked players from even playing in a game for ELO.

This level of gate keeping in such a small community I think is not only unnecessary, it's detrimental for the growth of the community.  

I know the response here is o well "no one is stopping ini/vets from organizing their own IH games" but this is a moot point because all the vets that play regularly have been made elites, most of the vets still active don't play much, if any, IH games, and as I've previously states the view from the ground floor of the initiates is real sad, and those poor souls have no longer any opportunity to play in any ELO ranked games. Also on this point no one wants to sit in a lobby for 1-3 hours waiting for enough people to play a ini/vet IH which this community unfortunately does not have the population too sustain.

The ELO system has effectively only become a metric for elite players, as this rule has very effectively (albeit unintentionally) slammed the door on a large amount of players even being able to take part in the system at all. My point in fact being, we are about in the 60ish? recorded games for season 2 and there is not a single initiate even on the leaderboard.

(And none of you better point at me cause I ain't no scrubnitiate, and I earned my place on the leaderboard by playing mixed lobbies and winning vs teams that almost always had one or more elites in the lobby.)

 

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7 hours ago, MajorG said:

I would like to add a view point from the back of the bus community in AoS pertaining to the new season.

The no ELO for mix lobby games I feel (and I've spoken to some other players that share this sentiment) is a questionable move for the health of the community. Particularly newer players and even some of the mid pack players. The reason being, the lower level captain draft games depended on some elites/mods coming down from Mount ELOlmypus and mixing with us lowly mortals, while still counting for some ELO. This was a two-fold benefit,

1. some of the less skilled players got to play with and be coached by higher level players, which in turn helps them be better players without the higher level players wasting time on a non ELO game.

2. It helped get struggling lobbies on NA and/or lower level IH games actually get off the ground.

Emerging players need to be able to play with more experienced players to actually develop into better players, you can't just have noobs banging their noob coconuts together all day and expect them to become better players.

The no ELO for mixed lobbies has created an atmosphere of only being able to play for ELO in an Elite lobby, and the Elite players are using the "I can't earn ELO with you in the lobby" as yet another excuse too exclude players they don't think can ever or will ever be able to play on their "level". It has in effect removed the possibility of most of the low/mid ranked players from even playing in a game for ELO.

This level of gate keeping in such a small community I think is not only unnecessary, it's detrimental for the growth of the community.  

I know the response here is o well "no one is stopping ini/vets from organizing their own IH games" but this is a moot point because all the vets that play regularly have been made elites, most of the vets still active don't play much, if any, IH games, and as I've previously states the view from the ground floor of the initiates is real sad, and those poor souls have no longer any opportunity to play in any ELO ranked games. Also on this point no one wants to sit in a lobby for 1-3 hours waiting for enough people to play a ini/vet IH which this community unfortunately does not have the population too sustain.

The ELO system has effectively only become a metric for elite players, as this rule has very effectively (albeit unintentionally) slammed the door on a large amount of players even being able to take part in the system at all. My point in fact being, we are about in the 60ish? recorded games for season 2 and there is not a single initiate even on the leaderboard.

(And none of you better point at me cause I ain't no scrubnitiate, and I earned my place on the leaderboard by playing mixed lobbies and winning vs teams that almost always had one or more elites in the lobby.)

 

Of course man. Everything you said. Even when writing previous post i already thought everything about what you said here and how system just truly makes those on top to stay on top. If you look at it and get it deep and as a whole. It looks cool and promising, like bonus elo points, so weaker players have illusion that they can compete and it benefits them, when in reality it works in the opposite direction. Elite players have way more games organized, so easier inflation means staying on top more. Thats why i made comparision to politics, promises and bribes. Every next thing introduced is that their game gets more enjoyable and fix their problems "on the top", taking off the responsiblities of being a human being and living in society, most of time in the cost of those in bottom and community and its future as a whole. Even last week people tried to make from saturday event elite only ih. It just never stops man. Whats the next thing? If they lack player cause people left then its ok to get players from lower ranks, but when you have initiate ih getting people from top is almost impossible and even made that way with things like "you cant, he is elite, not for elo etcetera" It just goes one way sadly and seperation intesification getting higher and higher over time, tendency to focus more and more on hierarchy on that high amount is just bad (when it basically makes people not be able to play, be not fair, chance to compete, quit game). Being uber late for inhouses or events and then kicking players from lower ranks that waited long, is so common (even when not being signed up in the event as en elite). Sometimes even changing servers to do that.

But the thing is THEY DONT CARE, simple as that. Very selfish attitude. And i don't care honestly for example that im not elite, im perfectly fine with that (i actually prefer to stay veteran), people understimate me all the time and almost never reward also i already proved things and skill in aos multiple times across the time. Im so used to that. It doesnt matter. But when i think people treat other like that, especially people that maybe cant handle things like that, maybe even in this period of time in their life- that is what actually makes me angry, like truly i can admit angry (not like in the moment of play or in some discussion or people esp on the other side thinking its huge argue, when i actually don't care or feel it in anyway) . When people dont picture things for the greater good, overall benefit for everybody together. And im not saying individual good is bad (everybody obviously is responsible for themself) but when it takes absolute priority and with cost of overall good or others its bad. And it happens like all the time sadly, everywhere. All of the stuff happening latetly in aos in my eyes is absolutly disqusting.

I didnt want to say this cause was too tired already and people don't like truth, can't handle truth and "im the bad guy" when people with behaviour like mentioned higher are elites, together with constant raqe quitting, stacking teams, smurfing all the time, all chat bms. Thats the elite behaviour. Just rofl. Absolutly crazy. Also didnt mentioned it before because i knew, i was 100 sure sooner or later it will come out from other people, those at the bottom especially.

People in initiate lobbies wait in average somewhat around 3 hours for a game, sometimes it takes 5hours or it never happens. When people in discord from those ranks cry they would love some help, they need some people and in respond for them even from developer i hear "just get more people" it reminds me of Twitch Thot reaches 100% brain capacity - YouTube . Sad



 

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I mostly agree with what Major and SayMyName posted. Both of them get a bad rap for being.... er, "overly-dramatic" in game but I feel are largely correct in regards to this and should not just be brushed off. 

Aside from the frustration of hardly ever being able to get into a IH game nowadays, its pretty funny and mind-blowing how elitist and clique-ish behavior bleeds into even such a ridiculously small and insignificant community like AOS, a custom game within a free-to-play game. 

We currently have a select roster of 15 or so Elite players regularly being able to play games, getting dibs to spots in private lobbies (AI always added to ensure unwanted veterans can't  join even when its a non-Elite lobby "Oh, so-and-so-Elite said he was joining in 30 mins!" ). Meanwhile Veterans and Initiates wait in lobbies for hours and can never get enough competitive games to get ranked. 

Hell, fringe IH players like myself, Major and SMN don't even have it that bad, as we can get the odd IH game in here and there. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for the less outspoken or proactive Veteran/Initiate players. 

I'm not expecting any change tbh, as the Elites don't care about the rest of the community as long as they get to play amongst themselves and feel good about padding their ELO. And the admins and rule-makers just lethargically shrug their shoulders and say "well, that's how the way things are" or are Elites themselves so can't be bothered. 

It would be nice however, if ppl could stop being hypocrites and pretending like they actually care about growing the community, when by their attitude and actions its pretty obvious they don't. 

 

 

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