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Tetra makes late game boring


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8 to 4 second spell damage invulnerability after the 50 minute mark is absolute insane.  It's actually so long to where it's brain-dead and requires no timing/skill.  Team fights can be over in 4 seconds late game.

I suggest we re-evaluate the cost, duration, and resistance %.  Personally if we wanted 100% spell resist -  I'd make it 4300 minerals, 3 seconds spell invulnerability flat, no silence.  However, it's a bad concept to 100% counter spell casters late game for any duration and I'd start at the drawing board again. 

I'd also make the same argument against shrink ray.  Disabling heroes with 1 item is bad design.. too newb friendly, not competitive.

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Assuming you don't have heroes that can innately counter the item such as Physical Damage, True Damage, or Immunity Piercing abilitities, you can:

Bait and Waste - It has one of the highest item cooldowns that is not reducible by CDR.
Silence before it is used (Taser, Frozen Cuirass, Nihilator Crux, Shrink Ray)
Disarm before it is used (FoE active works if applied before Tetra activates and is not removed by Debuff Immunity)
Ghosting Garb lasts longer than Tetra after it is used several times, and is a fraction of the cost with a much lower cooldown.
Escape (See Tetra and Silver Soul/Impact/Warp Shard away).

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@MOTHER Of the items that you listed above Most casters can only utilize Bait and Waste (which doesnt really work if they are good) and silence (the only option you have is shrink ray and that item is too expensive and doesnt give enough to get early so they will have tetra well before you get shrink ray). The other options dont include things that a caster would have readily accessible in a normal game.

Tetra just feels like it does too much. If they Item just gave debuff immunity for the same duration it would still be a strong item.

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13 hours ago, NoWaterJustIce said:

@MOTHER Of the items that you listed above Most casters can only utilize Bait and Waste (which doesnt really work if they are good) and silence (the only option you have is shrink ray and that item is too expensive and doesnt give enough to get early so they will have tetra well before you get shrink ray). The other options dont include things that a caster would have readily accessible in a normal game.

Tetra just feels like it does too much. If they Item just gave debuff immunity for the same duration it would still be a strong item.

It's 5v5 though. The caster doesn't have to counter Tetra for themselves. So many utility items are dirt cheap.

Additionally, the argument that Bait and Waste won't work if they are really good isn't logical. You can read a player's behavior, and get better in response.

The most important part of baiting Tetra is to ensure each usage by the enemy doesn't cost you a team fight thereby costing you an objective. If you can't kill them, you should wait it out, reorganize, and attack again.

The premise of Tetra (and Shrink Ray) exists in DotA, one of our progenitors, which is arguably the most competitive moba in existence today. While AoS' has a somewhat different context and game rules, the idea that such items make the game less competitive isn't convincing. This isn't to suggest that the items cannot or should not be finetuned, just that the concept isn't new or radical.

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The game has a lot of abilities that pierce Spell/Debuff Immunity. As more players begin to adopt Tetra in their builds -- an item that has been in the game for quite some time at this point but has been awfully neglected (See Guile Gambit) -- there will be more thoughtful and calculated options that pierce Spell Immunity partially or completely introduced.

Tetra was added out of necessity to counter the supreme power of mages and AoE abilities at one point in time, and as such will likely remain in the game. Garb, it's Physical counterpart exists for the same reason.

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The item provides quite a bit of damage etc by it's own which means it's not a big dmg output trade off that you are doing to get it. Instead you are likely to do a hell lot of more during a team fight as you are more likely to actually survive an entire team fights due to the item. In addition you are likely to absorbing a lot of more damage.

The item would still be purchased even if it started off at the lowest duration time, this is probably a good nerf to start with.

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tetra wouldnt be as big of an issue if every carry didnt have mobility out the butt

carries by default move faster than other heroes, and most carries also have a mobility ability alongside that, making it very easy to dominate a fight with tetra.

Edited by Revision
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I am annoyed with people banging on about the stats being good on Tetra. They are BAD

image.png.d65ab3a9cd8ebcdd67ee36d617b537a4.png

I agree with revision that the combination with highly mobile ranged DPS is annoying but as mother alluded to this will be fixed by more items/heroes that pierce spell immunity.

For reference in dota: https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Spell_immunity/Enemy_Interactions

Several of these are AoE or single target stuns.

With the changes at the moment nerfing dps heroes I think it would be really bad to remove Tetra purely because at the moment people are drafting heavy spell damage wombo combo comps. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I Luled to the response shortly because right now as it is now in terms how game is designed, balanced, tetra is absolutly mandatory item in the game.

Like mother mentioned in dota there is equivalent of the item, called bkb. And many times you try to kite it out. BKB timings are essential to the game and lineups very often.

Thing is (i mentioned it couple of times, but people dont understand , negate or dont wanna acknowledge) if you compare dota to aos - dota has way more stuns (lets say in avg 2-2,5sec, you can get even permastunned almost - depends on heroes obviously), most of times fights are slower (depend on heroes/lineups/current meta heavly - in dota you can have compositions that like to have slower/prolonged fights or burst or even more differentiated, too much to write) when aos has way more dmg. (tho disables inscreased a little compared how it used to be)

So in order for your heroes , carries and so called balanced lineups to not be obsolete- magic immunity is needed. If not you can have carry that leeches 30min of game 20-30k networth and be absolutly countered by well cordinated teams basically every single time with some heroes/items (disables, burst). 

In dota you gonna get perma disables and useless not being able to play - put into the table your team investment into the core. In aos you dont even often need disable cause you will evaporate in 2 sec by absolutly INSANE amounts of magic dmg, burst of skills. Some people dont even realize how ridiciolously Aeon of storms spells scale, like a LOT.

In dota spells have lower dmg but most of times are compensated with more "usefullness" - doing something beneficial for your team, slowing enemy, cc, buffing, debuffing, repositioning, etc etc. And mostly carries scale with dmg/passives etc. Also certain spells bypass magic immunity (disable, sometimes dmg only, or both, depends,)- mostly ultimate abilties of the heroes bypass magic immunity, especially single target ones. There are few exceptions outside of ultimate abilities for heroes that some skills are absolutly crucial or essential for the hero. Dota has years of balance, by multiple people, way higher, bigger community, thinked tested etc. Most of things dota has came from experience/ reasons, some logic.

Increasing the spell effectivness (dmg scalling, penetration) only makes the problem bigger - read harder to deal with/balance out. If you wanna tetra not to be needed so strong or must pick up you would need to actually nerf the spells. Its really simple as that

 

So if you remove tetra it will result in decreasing amount of startegy in the game by a significant degree (which is considered negative by majority) and it will make as right now magic heroes absolutly over the roof.

Agi carries were nerfed (which was needed), maybe little too much. Tanks got buffed (which were in the worst position). Mages were slightly buffed, got some nerfs.

 

 

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