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Bile

Idea for towers

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Thoughts on adding a slowing AoE aurora to towers? This way if someone dives they REALLY need to commit and it makes tower diving what its supposed to be, high risk/reward? 

 

Thoughts?

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Towers generally are not there to keep you safe from enemy heroes past the 10-15 minute mark, they are there to keep lanes safe from enemy creeps. Your role as a player is to protect the towers, not the other way around. An organized tower dive cannot be countered by anything except another well organized counter dive by you and your allies. Or you can forfeit the area until your team can muster a proper response. Better than dying in some cases, unless you are using your death to buy time for the tower.

In some situations, you can trigger tower aggro by getting damaged (e.g. enemy superheated mantles or DST, certain passive abilities) then smoking your way out. The tower will detect the enemy but they won't detect you.

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I have to agree with Mother here. Towers are already very strong and easily turn the tides of a fight well into the game. If 3 people dive you and kill you 3v1, it is your fault for dying. Not the game's fault for the tower being too weak. As players we have to take the responsibility of knowing which enemies are missing and what they are capable of if they come to our lane. Perhaps the best idea is to leave the area if you can't defend it. If your team doesn't help, it's their fault for losing objectives for free. Often people just farm and disregard their enemies. If their are 5 enemies pushing a lane and people on the team are just scattered over the map farming (not even pushing) then they are playing poorly.

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2 minutes ago, Adamantium said:

I have to agree with Mother here. Towers are already very strong and easily turn the tides of a fight well into the game. If 3 people dive you and kill you 3v1, it is your fault for dying. Not the game's fault for the tower being too weak. As players we have to take the responsibility of knowing which enemies are missing and what they are capable of if they come to our lane. Perhaps the best idea is to leave the area if you can't defend it. If your team doesn't help, it's their fault for losing objectives for free. Often people just farm and disregard their enemies. If their are 5 enemies pushing a lane and people on the team are just scattered over the map farming (not even pushing) then they are playing poorly.

"But.... But... I called MIA!" 

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On 7/28/2019 at 10:17 PM, Adamantium said:

I have to agree with Mother here. Towers are already very strong and easily turn the tides of a fight well into the game. If 3 people dive you and kill you 3v1, it is your fault for dying. Not the game's fault for the tower being too weak. As players we have to take the responsibility of knowing which enemies are missing and what they are capable of if they come to our lane. Perhaps the best idea is to leave the area if you can't defend it. If your team doesn't help, it's their fault for losing objectives for free. Often people just farm and disregard their enemies. If their are 5 enemies pushing a lane and people on the team are just scattered over the map farming (not even pushing) then they are playing poorly.

Time the flob out here Adam. When was the last time you've seen a solid AoS match? Sure if you die 3v1 for them to dive you suck, but when there's so many bugs and abuses with abilities and new items its not even funny. I used to remember old aos and the towers being very strong but now they're simply not. I've died to tower dives where I legit have hugged/damaged the enemy heroes for at least 20 seconds if not longer on some occasions and the tower bugs out or an item like ghosting gets used, and the tower looks incredibly weak doing minimal if any damage. Then what happens? (TWENTY flobING SECONDS)

Let's say for the moment I get dived 3v1 and suffer a decent amount of damage. What options do I have? I can teleport back to base to heal and return losing valuable farm and letting the opposing team snowball my lane. Or I stay near the tower to try and heal, and this is where the problem is for the gameplay currently. 9/10 times a player wont want to leave lane to maximize his experience during the laning phase of the game. However more so than not, staying by the tower which you think would target and help aid in ur defense backfires and you end up dying anyway. The tower misfires or fires at a creep than a hero and if u want to get super technical u can have 2-4 players duck in and out of the tower messing with the ai targeting mechanism and it not shooting at all. 

all of this on top of so many movement speed/debuff/healing items in the game has changed the meta of the game where tower diving is almost essential due to it's minimal threat. The tower isn't much of a defense to fall back to especially early game when it shoots slowly, can only have one target, and is easily fooled. 

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40 minutes ago, Bile said:

there's so many bugs and abuses with abilities

Elaborate, give specifics, and we may tackle these individually. Blanket buffs to towers is not the way.

Are you also warding the area? If you did, you can see a tower dive coming from a mile away and act accordingly.

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24 minutes ago, MOTHER said:

Elaborate, give specifics, and we may tackle these individually. Blanket buffs to towers is not the way.

Are you also warding the area? If you did, you can see a tower dive coming from a mile away and act accordingly.

That's the thing, now I just abandon lane because I know for a fact that tower can't stop more than two heroes. 

Dehakas Q makes the tower stop attacking you, omni same thing, lb's change aggro, ghosting+superheated+squishycarry=dead., ss flight will cancel, bio claymore 2x will cancel, there's more ill add later. Not bug but shade can abuse with ult+increase weapon range very easily, as can many other heroes due to towers being pretty ineffective, as mentioned before if u have 3 heroes u can dance the tower shots around and make the tower bug 

Edited by Bile

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I've seen what you could call solid AoS matches in recent weeks/months. There are abilities and possibly items that will make a unit drop tower aggro. I remember toying around with the flag at some point - it's called Benign and it's under the Behaviors Tab/State Flags. According to the wiki it "means that the unit is not automatically targeted by weapons". And then there are probably other strange interactions that will drop aggro. I can agree that those would be annoying and make towers feel weaker than they should be.

It's likely that we have different expectations for towers. If someone is playing a squishy hero against potential divers, he needs a supportive ally to survive instead of just a tower. Many heroes are not good at 1v2 defending a tower and I think that's a good thing. I do think the health differences, especially early in the game, are a bit much though. Squishy heroes would die to 3 tower shots while tanks would walk away after taking 6. That's less about tower strength and more about disparity in the strength of hero types.

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2 hours ago, Adamantium said:

I've seen what you could call solid AoS matches in recent weeks/months. There are abilities and possibly items that will make a unit drop tower aggro. I remember toying around with the flag at some point - it's called Benign and it's under the Behaviors Tab/State Flags. According to the wiki it "means that the unit is not automatically targeted by weapons". And then there are probably other strange interactions that will drop aggro. I can agree that those would be annoying and make towers feel weaker than they should be.

It's likely that we have different expectations for towers. If someone is playing a squishy hero against potential divers, he needs a supportive ally to survive instead of just a tower. Many heroes are not good at 1v2 defending a tower and I think that's a good thing. I do think the health differences, especially early in the game, are a bit much though. Squishy heroes would die to 3 tower shots while tanks would walk away after taking 6. That's less about tower strength and more about disparity in the strength of hero types.

Agreed but just overall I think the items and heroes and current playstyle really know to take advantage of these weaker towers to start a snowball effect very early on in the game. Add in a MK/Shade or Queen and your first tower could potentially be gone between the 9-13 minute mark in the game. Seems weak to me, way weaker in the past and the only major changes to the game in that aspect has been character development and items. 

The abilities that cause the tower to bug absolutely change the outcome of my early game and even entire games as a whole. Where I thought I could fend off a 3v1 or 3v2 suddenly becomes a lot harder when I'm taking constant damage and the tower isn't holding aggro properly. I either die or sacrifice the tower early and again the other team is off to a large lead due to a failing game mechanic, just irritating I suppose. 

The one good thing from all of this I've taken away however is becoming a little more creative with certain items and builds and actually finding some useful strategies along the way. But PLEASE FIX THE DEHAKA BUG, it's a extremely mobile tank, that's very beefy to begin with, has a self-heal, and can dive you at your tower continuously without taking more than 1-2 tower shots for his rotation of skills. 

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Dehaka Q dropping aggro is a feature :D. It's actually existed since I reworked him because I wanted that extra bit of OPness when playing him without people noticing. But yeah it should be gone.

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20 hours ago, Adamantium said:

Dehaka Q dropping aggro is a feature :D. It's actually existed since I reworked him because I wanted that extra bit of OPness when playing him without people noticing. But yeah it should be gone.

Extra bit? It changes so much of the game because of it haha! PLS REMOVE! 😄

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