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axtrimaitex

My Final Suggestion

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Hello guys, i posted a few months ago about the problems of the new map and i wasn't listened. I stoped playing this cos of the new map. Honestly i think the game is not longer good.

I don't like to say the same thing twice since if someone don't wanna change his opinion there is no much to do about it, but in honor to the love i have for this game i will make my last suggestion to the actual developers. 

1.  I think my opinions should count in someway since im one of the oldest players right now, probably from the second generation of players(like 4 or 5 years playing).

2. Every body knows that i have suported this game, not only with feedback, but with videos, i have even helped new players with my clan. I actually created a system of challenges to help to decrease the time of learning for them. A lot of people was part of this system, even if most of them wasn't able to complete it, i think most of them got some good knowledge from it.

With this in mind what im about to say is for the good of the game, to improve it. Now if the developers don't care about what i think it's ok, but i think most of the people who don't like the new map, they just will stop playing and they wont say a word in the forum.

 

Aeon of Storms was a game so good that i preferred to play it before Dota 2, LOL and HOTS, even with the continues lags, rq, and other problems. Now, looking back, i can say that what made AOS a great game was the map and the fact that the result of the game doesn't depends only from what heroes you choose, but what items you buy. This could sound simple, but it's actually the big difference between AOS and other MOBA games. This is a Items MOBA oriented game. What minds that you can get a lot of different results using diferente items in different heroes. Now, i can understand why there are changes in the items and the heroes when they are too OP or too weak. I was getting a little mad about the developers making too radical changes in some heroes, because to the oldest players, who dedicated a lot of time to learn how to play properly some hero is no joke to see that same hero get completely changed. Well, that was something i could live with, but the new map was like.....why?.

I said this in my last post, why change something that is working nicely?, something that has years of work on it. If you play HOTS you can learn that, IF YOU CHANGE THE MAP, YOU CHANGE THE GAME. 

Such a huge change has no justification. Even more, we all knew that AOS was in troubles even before the map was changed. 

The actual map has huge problems, i don't think i have to list them all, since they are too evident. I think you should think more about us guys, the community, the players, since at the end of the day this game is for us, for the players and in a certain way this game belong to us too. As my final argument, if you wanna create a new game, a game similar to dota 2 or LOL you can do it and launch it in the Arcade section, and see how the people respond, but why delete AOS and create a new game?. But im my opinion what we play today is no longer AOS.

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52 minutes ago, axtrimaitex said:

Hello guys, i posted a few months ago about the problems of the new map and i wasn't listened. I stoped playing this cos of the new map. Honestly i think the game is not longer good.

I don't like to say the same thing twice since if someone don't wanna change his opinion there is no much to do about it, but in honor to the love i have for this game i will make my last suggestion to the actual developers. 

1.  I think my opinions should count in someway since im one of the oldest players right now, probably from the second generation of players(like 4 or 5 years playing).

2. Every body knows that i have suported this game, not only with feedback, but with videos, i have even helped new players with my clan. I actually created a system of challenges to help to decrease the time of learning for them. A lot of people was part of this system, even if most of them wasn't able to complete it, i think most of them got some good knowledge from it.

With this in mind what im about to say is for the good of the game, to improve it. Now if the developers don't care about what i think it's ok, but i think most of the people who don't like the new map, they just will stop playing and they wont say a word in the forum.

 

Aeon of Storms was a game so good that i preferred to play it before Dota 2, LOL and HOTS, even with the continues lags, rq, and other problems. Now, looking back, i can say that what made AOS a great game was the map and the fact that the result of the game doesn't depends only from what heroes you choose, but what items you buy. This could sound simple, but it's actually the big difference between AOS and other MOBA games. This is a Items MOBA oriented game. What minds that you can get a lot of different results using diferente items in different heroes. Now, i can understand why there are changes in the items and the heroes when they are too OP or too weak. I was getting a little mad about the developers making too radical changes in some heroes, because to the oldest players, who dedicated a lot of time to learn how to play properly some hero is no joke to see that same hero get completely changed. Well, that was something i could live with, but the new map was like.....why?.

I said this in my last post, why change something that is working nicely?, something that has years of work on it. If you play HOTS you can learn that, IF YOU CHANGE THE MAP, YOU CHANGE THE GAME. 

Such a huge change has no justification. Even more, we all knew that AOS was in troubles even before the map was changed. 

The actual map has huge problems, i don't think i have to list them all, since they are too evident. I think you should think more about us guys, the community, the players, since at the end of the day this game is for us, for the players and in a certain way this game belong to us too. As my final argument, if you wanna create a new game, a game similar to dota 2 or LOL you can do it and launch it in the Arcade section, and see how the people respond, but why delete AOS and create a new game?. But im my opinion what we play today is no longer AOS.

Yo Axtri,

 

1) Your opinion as one of the oldest player is of course important since many players left AoS during this last years.

2) I don't think developers don't care about what you think, but you should come at least test the beta map with us. Game has changed, YES ! but the gamework is still the same and I think those new heroes, skins, spells, items can be only a good thing for the future of AoS. As you said before "AOS was in troubles even before the map was changed" So I will def the devs about this new map, they try to give a 2nd life to this great game and to make a healthy community (yeah pretty hard on NA).

Lot of points has been mentioned to dev about this new map and they try to fix it step by step (that's why you should play with us on beta map and give your recommandations about it)

The list of those "problems" might be maybe huge but as one of the oldest players that you are, you should consider the work which has been done on it and take the time to write this list instead of a long complaining message without solutions ! 

See you on beta map !

 

 

Edited by FRAXRider

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MOTHER   

I came here to read your suggestion and I couldn't find it. Did you want us to change the map back because you couldn't integrate and adapt? Or am i missing something? 

As "one of the oldest players" you should know that the map underwent several changes before. You should also know that for the last 2 years the game has been stagnant with little to no updates.

Yet, More players are active now than 6 months ago, so much so that we made it back into the top 20 several times and at least twice in the top 15. You're painting an unfair and false picture ("Deleted aos"? WTF man) about the condition of the game today with your defeatist tone.

 You know that we hold open tests every week to help improve the game, how many tests have you attended lately Ax? 

Also don't tell me I don't listen. I'm listening all the damn time, lol. I have opened my account up and added any and all AoS players. I leave my account online all the time with the very purpose of ensuring people CAN reach me because most players don't use the forums or even have accounts here. But don't mistake listening for obeying. Make a reasonable case for something and you always receive a response in kind. 

Please, You should also really just speak for yourself and avoid generalizations. You say the map has huge problems but have not named one. Nor have you provided potential reasonable solutions to said problems.

So my suggestion for you to is to compartmentalize your problems with the map, offer ideas on how to fix them, and we can tackle them one by one together. Yes you have to list them all, and No they are not evident. 

Posts like the op help no one in the end and with all due respect come off as just plain whiney. This isn't personal because you know I like you and respect you, but this post doesn't go anywhere and leaves us back where we started.

I hope you reconsider your position and recognize that this is still AoS in spite of what you are saying and will always be AoS. The game is fundamentally unchanged and If something is getting lost in the translation of the experience know that it is only temporary while we work out any kinks and you figure out your way around - together if possible.

 

I will also second Rider's suggestion, join us online in making the game better by actually playing the game with us. Or don't. But don't say we don't listen. :)

 

 

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ZERATUL   

Well I'm not sure how accurate is the statement that game has more players than 6 months ago since EU died and all players went to NA, but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't agree at all with OP that map is a problem (if we are talking about more lag then yes, but nothing else).

Reason for me leaving is cuz of 2 things. 

1) All ppl I liked to play with left. Now I won't guess why they all left but I know some of them left cuz of bad changes.

2) Absolutely terrible hero balance/reworks. From what I've seen about 90% of the changes make no sense at all and seems like game is being balanced like everyone is in bronze.

Edited by ZERATUL

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MOTHER   

Zera many of the people you played with are still playing, and the rebalance changes don't make sense to you because you lack context.

Reading shap on a changelog and seeing the changes play out live in the context of the new map are two different things. So it will be total gibberish to you if you don't play the game.

 

i hope you upgrade your machine soon so we can possibly enjoy your company more often as I remember you mentioning it was giving  you trouble.

 

 

 

 

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AceSpade   
4 hours ago, MOTHER said:

Zera many of the people you played with are still playing, and the rebalance changes don't make sense to you because you lack context.

Reading shap on a changelog and seeing the changes play out live in the context of the new map are two different things. So it will be total gibberish to you if you don't play the game.

 

i hope you upgrade your machine soon so we can possibly enjoy your company more often as I remember you mentioning it was giving  you trouble.

 

 

 

 

What about lag - I have not bad pc that gives me stable 55-60 fps in overwatch at high , in AOS on low graph at minute 40 I usually have no more than 35 and sometimes there are drops to 1

 

Also when you tell that reading changes and playing after changes is too different  I can only laugh cause you changed things in game that were fine and things that you don't know 

ok you play queen ere summers - you change them

ok you changed some heroes that were to strong

 

for what you change starfury, dehaka, huntres, balrog? you even never play them

 

 

when I asked you for the reason for changing scales or rog ult you told  like "int doesn't fit to him"

srsly?  why alarak has int scale on Q then?

why huntres has 50% int scale on Q  50% int scale on W and 100% int scale on ult?

vergil, artanis are agi

why you use different logic in 1 game?

I don't understand that

 

When I had problems with balance in my game - I just left everything and played it one week. 6-7 hours per day.

I did it cause I considered that project needs changes. A after I finished - I knew what was wrong and I fixed it.

 

I am not asking you to play every day for hours, no.

I am just asking you to play.

As much as possible.

Never try to change something cause of "idea" or "suggestion".

Change it after you played it much enough to understand what is wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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MOTHER   

Fell my dear, you just wanted buffs to your heroes and item builds and got angry when changes hit them. You then hounded  me all over bnet in games and bombarded with page long essays and your "calculations" so much that I ended up getting a smurf just so I can play in peace. Even then, You continued during tests and then on my inbox here until I had no choice but to block you.

You can call it/me what you whatever you want to feel better about the changes, but dont hijack Ax's thread to continue your ramblings. It's really childish.

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AceSpade   
1 hour ago, MOTHER said:

so much that I ended up getting a smurf just so I can play in peace

its not smurf - it is my friends acc cause I am not home and I don't remember password, I will come home in a week and will use my  Fe11 acc

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AceSpade   
1 hour ago, MOTHER said:

 

Fell my dear, you just wanted buffs to your heroes and item builds and got angry when changes hit them

 

ah  and flob you for telling this cause its what you do lol

I don't mind playing in shap I just, I just wanna know why you don't mind of me play in shap

 

I am crazy man with psychological illness I can do and tell whatever I want

funny there is that you cannot tell me if I am right or wrong about your game cause you don't know you game

nvm, I shut up 

Edited by AceSpade

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Aphonia   
15 hours ago, axtrimaitex said:

Hello guys, i posted a few months ago about the problems of the new map and i wasn't listened. I stoped playing this cos of the new map. Honestly i think the game is not longer good.

I don't like to say the same thing twice since if someone don't wanna change his opinion there is no much to do about it, but in honor to the love i have for this game i will make my last suggestion to the actual developers. 

1.  I think my opinions should count in someway since im one of the oldest players right now, probably from the second generation of players(like 4 or 5 years playing).

Lol. You joined in 2013. I remember when you were new and joined Mumble; guess who instantly flamed you. Me? No. Whale lmao. 

This game began dying when people lost trust in the Devs in this game, they began to focus balance on selective feedback from friends (NA players). Heck I recall even in the week you joined the forums Axtri; Red+EKCO crazy buffed two champs and went on holiday for 2 weeks rofl. The game then ceased to be updated and almost quoting Red verbatim 'a successful game doesn't need changes for a year'. On the other hand when a new developer came he made sweeping changes which came far too rapidly. The fabric of AoS was changed and the game became almost unrecognisable. A new development team came afterwards into a situation summed up in Latin 'Auribus teneo lupum'. That is to say crassly 'dey was fked bro'. With the player base haemorrhaging, less fresh players available to replace them and a prominent duopoly in their game genre the game has been treading water ever since.  

To be fair Jessika/Mother does listen to feedback. The issue is whether due to a language barrier or spite, you and a lot of EU players come across rather rude. There is no solid constructive feedback and instead just 'game shap'/'trash admin'. Now I do not necessarily disagree with you - but you remember the golden rule for feedback. If you wish to put critique something then always provide solutions to the problem. If you can't then ask yourself if what you have said helps anyone but your ego. 

An essay provided to you by Jamal Inc 2017. 

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Problems with the map:
- Too big: Go from bottom to top is a imposible mission, the map is just way too big.

- Early Farming: You cant jugle early game anymore cos the neutrals aret oo strong, also they sometimes they attack you even if you dont attack them. 

DPS heroes need a huge mineral income, and jungle is the safe place to get it. 

In the old map you could do this just geting Hunter Hatcher - Sould Engine and Machette and was like that for many years. Now is not longer an option. If you want to jungle you better get some big items to do it, other way you can not.

This 2 problems are huge and change the game completely.
I still don't think the old map was one of the AOS problems. That is why i keep asking why to make such a drastical desition to change it. But, whatever, you have the last word on this. But you should know that is not only me who thinks this way, there are other players who dosn't like the map but they wont tell his opinion here. 

Also im not trying to be rude with MOTHER or making negative comments, im speaking with honestly, i have tried the new map and i cant understand why the developers made the map change, i cant understand why, i just cant.

Also, maybe now there are new players, but why the oldests ones are leaving then?. Maybe becose we all know that become a master with a categorie of heroes takes a lot of time, hours of practice and thinking, takes years to understand the game. And if you change the game we wont try to learn all over again, learn how to farm again, try to understand how avoid the backdoors with this huge map, change all the team strategies again. I dont know how the others old players feel about this, but im kind of hurt with all this changes. You are not considering all the hours it took me to create a lot of items combinations to all my heroes and the team strategies i had created, It took me months, you can ask Jeha, he knows about all this. Now i have to change it all, test all my heroes again?. I dont think so. If you, developers continue with this acttitude of making whatever you want, there is no one of us to who can make you change your mind, but i'm starting to see that you guys dont care about losing us as players. Even when i have supported this game this seems to dont matter to you guys and that is sad. But whatever,  the people who thinks like me wont speak here like i'm doing it, they just will leave.

 

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MOTHER   

1- Map is bigger, but the buffs to existing mobility options and the increase in the number of options make it indiscernible. Gametime is unaffected on average. Once you get used to this after a few games and get acquainted with all the new toys that are at your disposal this shouldn't be an issue.

2- The jungle is a work-in-progress, this was mentioned many times since we went out of beta, and it can only be improved with the help of the players. The jungle in 2.5 for example is an improvement over the current live map thanks in large part to the players (like Fell for example) playing the game. There is also a lot of new items that were created for the sole purpose of jungling. It's clear to me that you are not paying attention to what's going on because we are taking feedback on this part especially and are refining it as we go.

Honestly, Ax it just sounds like you don't want to learn new things, to the point that you've imagined that we changed the game unrecognizably in your head. Most of the old builds work and the old drafts. A handful of heroes and items were repositioned to occupy new and unique niches, likewise some items went through the same. Many heroes were finetuned to be more balanced in the new context, but most of them are fundamentally the same heroes.

There is no attitude of doing "whatever we want", but that also doesn't mean we do "whatever you want". I can't make you adapt to this direction just as much as you can't make me stagnate and do nothing. Yet here you are accusing me for not caring about the playerbase, which is complete bullshap.  FYI, just because I refused to officially support your clan and its initiatives on the AoS loading screen, doesn't mean I don't care about the playerbase. 

Bottomline: The two major problems you are facing have been greatly minimized since the 7 update began and will continue to be - I am confident that most current players will attest to this. Your refusal to adapt is not a reasonable justification at all for me to stop keeping AoS up to date and fresh in 2017.

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Well, idk where the loading screen stuff came but, i think this is not the place to talk about it.

But since you are talking about that i must defend myself:

First, i commented to MOTHER  that i had created a school for AOS(called back in time Master Challenge) and it could help a lot to the new players, and a lot of people know about this cos i used to invite player to join this school, old and new players. , this was the message(copy-paste) with no editing:

 

"Hello, I have an idea. I would like to create a School of AOS(in the form of a StarCraft 2 group) for any player who wants to take the short way to learn this game. I can do it by myself, but I think it could be a great idea have the support of the AOS developers to give rewards to the player who are able to complete the school. This school could minimize the time to become a decent player and increase our community members. So my idea is create an official AOS school for any player, new or old, who wants to learn the basics concepts of this game and also give rewards to the player who complete the school. I already have the group created and I have been using it to recruitment of members for my clan. If you like the idea I can invite you to the group to let you see who the process works."

 

After this, you offered to me to put the info about the School in the loading screen and you never did it. I don't care about that, i dont need to be there, i never asked for recognition of any type or asked to put my name in color with out a reason. And you never did what you said you would do, so. Even so, i never asked you why you didnt do it, cos i undestand that maybe you changed you mind. And Jeha is also witness of all this, since we were both commited to continue with this new school.

But, as i said, im talking cos of the love i have for this game, but i think this subject is over. It's clear that you dont share my position and it's ok. And also im surprised the low number of replies, just like 3 people talking about this. This seems very weird to me, but it's ok, i give up on this.

In the last instance maybe you should make a forum question to the community, to see what they really think about this and make a vote, to bring the old map back or keep this one.

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MOTHER   
20 minutes ago, axtrimaitex said:

 

In the last instance maybe you should make a forum question to the community, to see what they really think about this and make a vote, to bring the old map back or keep this one.



This isn't up for debate AFAIK. This seems like it's easy for you because for you, it's a just poll motivated by you not wanting to adapt and learn, and for me it's easily over a hundred hours of work Adam, SCV, and I put into the developing this update.

You can find the old map in the arcade for you to enjoy and indulge your inner nostalgia. You can help us improve the live AoS, and rest assured we will listen attentively within reason. But what you are asking for is not an option I am willing consider in anyway so long as I am on the dev team. 

And if you want the AoS community, come play with us online. You'll find us all there, and you'll get your answer there, not on any poll or thread you make here. 

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MOTHER   

You can do as you please my friend. But to be clear and to sum up my stance:

1- Your current main problems with the 7th revision of AoS have been observed, addressed, and the game will continue to improve based on feedback from the remaining active playerbase.

2- Your "Final Suggestion" to revert back to AoS 6 (or at least version 1.367), undoing half a year's (and counting) worth of work, testing, and updates is completely and irrevocably rejected.

 

 

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BlackCat   

I have to admit that when I first went to playing the new map from the old one the change was HUGE and I felt very much the same as you ("It takes forever to get from bot to top! Wtf is this!"). 

But you know what, after a while you get used to it and its plenty enjoyable. 

I do agree however that jungle creep is too strong and that's an issue. You can only really seem to effectively jungle from early-mid game (or maybe it supposed to be this way?).

 

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AceSpade   
29 minutes ago, BlackCat said:

I have to admit that when I first went to playing the new map from the old one the change was HUGE and I felt very much the same as you ("It takes forever to get from bot to top! Wtf is this!"). 

But you know what, after a while you get used to it and its plenty enjoyable. 

I do agree however that jungle creep is too strong and that's an issue. You can only really seem to effectively jungle from early-mid game (or maybe it supposed to be this way?).

 

It is supposed to have lot knowledge about jungles, knw all numbers and timings I them)

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BlackCat   
13 minutes ago, AceSpade said:

It is supposed to have lot knowledge about jungles, knw all numbers and timings I them)

Uh, not sure what you mean. Are you saying you need to have considerable knowledge about timing, items, stats etc to effectively jungle now? 

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AceSpade   
11 minutes ago, BlackCat said:

Uh, not sure what you mean. Are you saying you need to have considerable knowledge about timing, items, stats etc to effectively jungle now? 

yes

I spent 3-4 hours learning how to clear as fast as possible and as ez as possible and I found some features 

nvm, don't do like me

 

jungles will be changed soon, there will be new items 

but all I want to say - jungling is possible now but very hard

 

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MOTHER   
1 hour ago, BlackCat said:

I do agree however that jungle creep is too strong and that's an issue. You can only really seem to effectively jungle from early-mid game (or maybe it supposed to be this way?).

 

It's not meant to be this way. This was the proposed jungle camps in the original AoS 7 update.

 

 

 

 

 

Easy Camp Variations

 

VdIXYSF.jpg

 

Medium camp variations

 

7cal31k.jpg

 

 

Hard camp variations

 

9t5yZ1D.jpg

 

 

Hardest or Sub-boss Camp variations

 

dhxMl7K.jpg

 

 

 

There was meant to be a bigger difference between each of the tiers, so that you can (if you are the right hero with the right tools) jungle from lvl 1 on your own.

Due to time constraints and other things taking priority over it, we settled for now to keep the current jungle camps, add 1 Tier 4 camp per side and attempt to fine tune the numbers.

We also added several new jungle friendly tools for the players such as Whale Breast, Hunter's Knife, and 2 (Imperial) Sanctums per side that help junglers' momentum. 

We also made it so the pathing for a Jungler is more set by centralizing specific areas in the map for the Jungler hero to occupy during the laning phase.

So jungling isn't meant to be more difficult, just more fleshed out to the point that there is a clearly defined jungler role and gameplan.

People forget that it took years to fine tune the balance of the jungle in the old map, and we won't perfect the jungle over night - especially with people whining rather than helping with constructive criticism.

These are some of the changes in the upcoming patch aimed at alleviating some of the current concerns with jungling:
 

 

Neutral Creeps

- Base mineral bounty adjusted to the following: Cyclones +10 (30), Hellion +5 (45), Siege Tank +5 (55), Thor +5 (65) Brax -5 (95).

- Base XP gained adjusted to the following: Cyclones -10 (15), Hellion +25 (75), Tank +25 (100), Thor +25 (125), Brax +25 (150).

- Thor attack damage increased by 25 (75); Health decreased by 250 (1400); Updated model.

- Siege Tank attack damage increased by 25 (100), deployed cast range increased to 10 from 8; Health decreased by 50 (1050); Updated model.

- Hellion attack damage reduced by 25 (50), Health reduced by 200 (700).

- Cyclone Health increased by 40 (350); Updated model.

 

Items

Hunter's Knife

Active cooldown reduced from 90 to 30 seconds.

 

Whale Breast 

Now grants +10 Weapon Damage while in your inventory.

Price increased to 100 from 75.

 

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