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DoubleG

Tass change

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We all agree that tass is stupidly strong and fill in every role in this game.

I play him a lot and gonna try to suggest some alternative versions of him. First of lets describe what he currently does.

  • Can splitpush without getting himself at risk of beeing killed
  • Has insane movespeed, shields and attackspeed boost on low cd
  • Insane AOE in ult and q
  • Insane burst on ult ( with the build I use I can literally insta kill anyone but a hardtank in lategame with only ult and one aa )
  • Can heal himself for like 5 % hp per second with proper items and has low cd on that skill plus a slow
  • Can save allies with ult

Not a single negative aspect comes to mind

 

Alright let’s see where we can change him up a bit. I’ll try to make different skillsets with different roles as of right now he is basically everything.

 

Support

Heroic - **

Q - does slow enemies hit by X amount, duration scale with levels invested

W - slows targets movespeed and attackspeed by X amount per level and deal a rather small amound of damage

E - adds shields and damage restist

R - can still swap with allies and self but not creep.Only does slow enemies hit. Health doesnt swap if swapped with self.

 

DPS

Heroic - **

Q - scales of weapondamage

W - still heals and damages for same amount of damage dealt( int scaling) and buff scaling from clone´s aa atleast to 100% id say

E - would leave as it is, only nerv the movespeed a bit (int scaling on shields)

R - remove int scaling and add weapondamage scale accordingly(in general tone down the burst and buff the slow so it is more utility then damage). Can only swap himself. Health swap if swapped with self.

 

Burst

Heroic - **

Q - leave as it is

W - as it is only without the slow

E - remove movespeed and attackspeed, so he only gains shields

R - same skill but can only use on self, health get not swaped.

This way he still could pull of his insane combo which does like cyprus ult damage in an aoe, but is running risk to die and has to decide if he wants that damage in teamfights or be splitpushing and relie only on Q damage.

 

**Another aspect is his damage gain while attacking with both clones. Each of his clone does 65% damage, so an increase of 30 % while attacking simultaneously. One way to nerv him here is to say that all damage source is toned down to 65% (starfury , cerebro , sliptide aswell). Or to reduce this number further to X amount.

 

 

The burst type is the closest to the current one with some major nervs. I tried not to screw up his skill set toooo much.

 

whatyathink

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lets be honest tho, the only people who can ih stomp with tass is yourself and zorro. tass requires a high level of skill and micro with the right build.

 

he can be countered with sustainable/stuns/silences/aoe heroes.

 

all tass in pubs (with the exception of cigsbr) i've seen have failed hard at tass.

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tass is harder than most of heroes - that is the truth but not as hard as narud for example. still needs nerf same as some old heroes needs buff ( bio, gara, micro, vorpal mb and some more who are not picked in ih at all as i have noticed

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We all agree that tass is stupidly strong and fill in every role in this game.

I play him a lot and gonna try to suggest some alternative versions of him. First of lets describe what he currently does.

  • Can splitpush without getting himself at risk of beeing killed
  • Has insane movespeed, shields and attackspeed boost on low cd
  • Insane AOE in ult and q
  • Insane burst on ult ( with the build I use I can literally insta kill anyone but a hardtank in lategame with only ult and one aa )
  • Can heal himself for like 5 % hp per second with proper items and has low cd on that skill plus a slow
  • Can save allies with ult

Not a single negative aspect comes to mind

 

Alright let’s see where we can change him up a bit. I’ll try to make different skillsets with different roles as of right now he is basically everything.

 

Support

Heroic - **

Q - does slow enemies hit by X amount, duration scale with levels invested

W - slows targets movespeed and attackspeed by X amount per level and deal a rather small amound of damage

E - adds shields and damage restist

R - can still swap with allies and self but not creep.Only does slow enemies hit. Health doesnt swap if swapped with self.

 

DPS

Heroic - **

Q - scales of weapondamage

W - still heals and damages for same amount of damage dealt( int scaling) and buff scaling from clone´s aa atleast to 100% id say

E - would leave as it is, only nerv the movespeed a bit (int scaling on shields)

R - remove int scaling and add weapondamage scale accordingly(in general tone down the burst and buff the slow so it is more utility then damage). Can only swap himself. Health swap if swapped with self.

 

Burst

Heroic - **

Q - leave as it is

W - as it is only without the slow

E - remove movespeed and attackspeed, so he only gains shields

R - same skill but can only use on self, health get not swaped.

This way he still could pull of his insane combo which does like cyprus ult damage in an aoe, but is running risk to die and has to decide if he wants that damage in teamfights or be splitpushing and relie only on Q damage.

 

**Another aspect is his damage gain while attacking with both clones. Each of his clone does 65% damage, so an increase of 30 % while attacking simultaneously. One way to nerv him here is to say that all damage source is toned down to 65% (starfury , cerebro , sliptide aswell). Or to reduce this number further to X amount.

 

 

The burst type is the closest to the current one with some major nervs. I tried not to screw up his skill set toooo much.

 

whatyathink

 

Burst is the way to go. Get rid of that health swap heal!

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lets be honest tho, the only people who can ih stomp with tass is yourself and zorro. tass requires a high level of skill and micro with the right build.

 

he can be countered with sustainable/stuns/silences/aoe heroes.

 

all tass in pubs (with the exception of cigsbr) i've seen have failed hard at tass.

 

Anyone who's decent can probably wrek with it after playing a few games. For instance Apache carried his team hard with it a few months ago when he played it for his first time.

 

I fully agree that the hero excels at to many roles, and the hero needs to get changed.

Edited by John

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I noticed that tass has always a period where he is op as flob and a period where is nerved to the ground that heavy that nobody plays him at all.I´d say every year those change eachother up.Cant think of another hero that way, kinda sad.

 

@zera , i totally agree about the bounty on clone in conjunction with some other nervs

@ jessika , mhm if we stick to the bursty type we should nerv the R and E in my opinion + the bounty. If we remove the attackspeed on E , it will make his early and midgame harder,cause harder to reach that peak.I would do that and reduce the movespeed bonus. on a second though i think thats overnerving him if we remove the movespeed complelty. And on the ult , i guess the midway would be that he can only swap with allied heores. But its nearly no difference to the current state.

Lets assume i play tass and lets say cescino plays jax(akasha, drake , micro, yig take ur pick) in an ih. I would just ask him to go in and if he gets a lot of people ,teamwipe. If he gets only one whole team goes on him. Well enemy team can try to help the guy who got cought and teamwipe happens(just ult jax) or splitup and get taken of ,one by one.This can be done with basicly any alie tanky hero with cc.My whole point is that tass will still rekk face, in ihes that is.Totally a nerv but not sure if enough. I fear the way i suggested it earlier is a bit overnerv.I dont know what a good sulution would be.

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just make Q active and less dmg + less cd

 

 

make hero harder cause look at narud, play narud ant then make tass harder

Edited by Fell

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can we just make tass lone druid from dota 2?

 

A leash is better used on MK's Bribe.

 

For Tass, I think Morphling's Replicate maybe be a better source of inspiration.

 

What I mean by this is Tass's R, now is an instant cast ability (not target unit spell) that instantly switches the places of Tass and his Projection when they are in range of one another.

 

What Tass loses is the ability to use R on anyone but his Projection. He also loses the health swap and cooldown bonus.

 

Tass keeps the AoE burst damage.

 

Tass gains 15/30/45u cast range.

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Personally I think the most annoying part of tass is his movespeed bonus from the e. That ability is crazy strong the more I think about it. I wonder how he would be if the movespeed part was just removed. Would still keep the stupid damage but would just be slower. That would at least be a start anyway.

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Changing ult like this is good but still not enough.

 

For ex in fight it will be very ez to save youself by ult,mb increase cast time up to 1.5+ sec?

 

 

and agree about movespeed,its to op

Edited by Fell

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