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OPReN

Disable Alarak

Horoes that should be disabled  

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Horoes that should be disabled

    • Alarak
      12
    • Pyro
      8
    • Penthos
      9
    • Artanis
      12


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Pub has been overwhelmed by this hero

Should we disable this hero?

I listed some other heroes that is considered strong

Vote what you think is broken

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make a jump skillshot that needs to hit something to work? wtf need some more explanation on that one for it not to sound insane, but i like where this is going.

 

unless you mean make him just grapple

Edited by Dresden

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I feel that tweaking the numbers simply won't make a difference when it comes to these heroes because are fundamentally strong/broken concepts (i.e. high reward, low risk heroes). Tools need to be taken away or overhauled completely for these heroes to become normalized.

 

Alarak aka Evil Artanis

 

I don't know where to begin with this guy. So many questions, like why is he a STR hero when he is completely about dealing physical damage and all his scaling is with weapon damage?

 

What are the max stacks permitted on his heroic passive? There should be a max # of stacks and it should be something low like 3-4. For that matter, why does the heroic passive scale with level when it already scales with max HP and DOUBLE when targets are below 40%?

 

Why does he have a built in counter to his only real hard counter (true damage on cleave)?

 

Why does he have built-in CDR for his abilities on top of all this?

 

Not even gonna talk about the CC (which would quite possibly be fine on its own if it weren't for the other stuff just mentioned).

 

Artanis

 

Why does his heroic passive deal scaling damage AND give him 80% slow on top of the fact that he is an agility hero on top of having 3 active skills that deal direct damage (two of which are AoE)?

 

Why does Q give him (of all heroes) spell penetration at all, i.e. a counter to his only real counter? Why does he have two charges of it on top of that and target allied heroes? Turning it into a target point spell on its own won't solve this. In fact, it offers him an escape (more tools yay!) for when no one is nearby.

 

Why does W (a non-ultimate) deal obscene damage and make him completely invulnerable for 2.5s? Why does the INT scaling itself scale also with time spent in the bubble when it should be fixed (since it already scales)?

 

Why does he have a ranged attack at all in the form of E? He ought to be 100% melee in terms of damage (it's one of the few things that justify him being AGI). His E skill feels like an afterthought TBH. It also scales with INT and max health. 2 Scales don't make a right.

 

 

Pyro

 

This guy isn't as big of an offender as the previous two.

 

HP - Remove or reduce the reduced healing.

 

W - The mana cost is too lenient for what it gives (It's also not in tool tip btw). But you shouldn't increase it, rather you should nerf this guy's INT/INT gain/level, or do we not do that in AoS?

 

R - Absolutely no reason why this STR initiator hero's ult has a range more than 8-10 (I'm being generous here).

 

Penthos

 

I'm not sure what's wrong here but it's always been wrong whatever it is. The combination of basic attacks, tether and storms in a melee setting is very strong (especially cuz he is dealing two types of damage simultaneously). But I wouldn't necessarily touch those because they are not really broke, I would go after his E skill because high reward heroes need to be high risk heroes. Phantom Menace doesn't help his case at all (but there is a thread for that already I think).

 

 

Sorry if I came off as abrasive, but these heroes especially can really bring down the entire experience of playing AoS sometimes. I'm at least happy that more and more people are taking notice of the set of problems they bring to the table.

Edited by Jessika

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Pyro W cost is actually pretty high, especially early game. I always take the energy talent, recover, and start out with a soul engine so i can use my other abilities sometimes, being forced to build even more energy sustain would suck. His ult was global in RoA, like gangplank ult, nerfing range on that isn't a bad idea but it won't really do much.

 

The thing that stands out the most to me as being op is pyro's passive, applying on every spell hit. I would look there first if you want to nerf something.

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Pyro W cost is actually pretty high, especially early game. I always take the energy talent, recover, and start out with a soul engine so i can use my other abilities sometimes, being forced to build even more energy sustain would suck. His ult was global in RoA, like gangplank ult, nerfing range on that isn't a bad idea but it won't really do much.

 

 

I've seen Pyro with only energy capsules use W to basically control a lane and waveclear during levels 1-3. Energy capsules are dirt cheap, and each capsule gives him 1 and half Ws, which combined with his heroic passive can give him really fast cash, and amazing sustain during laning. Pyro can even use W to pull the lane before it gets to the creep wave. This on its own does not make him OP, but it's on the absurd side of things if you ask me.

 

RoA did not have STR/AGI/INT heroes btw like AoS. This fact alone changes the fundamental way in which heroes are designed and balanced. Or at least it should. I'm all for "hybrid" heroes, but some hybrids are like Artanis break too many rules IMO, by gaining all the benefits of both traits they are embodying with none of the weaknesses. Thereby becoming too independent of items and their team, earlier.

Edited by Jessika

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Nerf energy capsules and power stone sustain, another problem caused by game imbalance that makes heroes seem more op than they are.

 

Who was that second paragraph for and what's the point? No one is arguing that roa and aos are not different. artanis and red artanis aren't from roa so i am kinda confused.

RoA did not have STR/AGI/INT heroes btw like AoS. This fact alone changes the fundamental way in which heroes are designed and balanced. Or at least it should.

 

No one has or ever will say otherwise... It's pretty much a given.

Edited by Dresden

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Who was that second paragraph for and what's the point? No one is arguing that roa and aos are not different. artanis and red artanis aren't from roa so i am kinda confused.

 

 

It was inspired by your statement that Pyro's ult being from RoA, not necessarily directed at any one thing you said but just a statement of fact. Artanis and Alarak do not follow the rules of INT/AGI/STR particularly well and that is partially the reason why they are 'broken/overpowered' designs. Penthos also somewhat ignores this rule because he can theoretically have near infinite sustain on all fronts so long as he is attacking something. AGI heroes should not have infinite energy for example, their weaker INT and STR is what keeps them in check usually. Penthos ignores this completely and can come online relatively fast compared to other carries.

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Honestly

A simple right change is also fine rather than outright disabling it

Alarak still a issue after changes?

Artanis I think

Remove or Nerf hp% on E and shorten the stun on his R, a artanis that uses a combo on you should be vulnerable to counterattacks from others, artanis IS a assassin according to Adam/adamantium/AtomiK

Penthos still does a lot of DMG in earlier parts of mid game, getting caught in his active Q and Storms does like over 400 spell damage in 3 seconds on top of his physical DMG or shm/ any other early item like ocelot

And if he decides to chase you, its hard to stop

Pyro also does a lot of spell damage and with atom, my only problem with it

This seems like a balance debate section topic

Guess all these heroes are getting removed, but it won't impact the game much I guess judging from placement of this topic due to people actually judging from pubs and not actually trying to provide some suggestions to deal with these heroes

Edited by accountzZ

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Twice today people raged because of either Penthos or Alarak. In one game, the losing team actually surrendered out of the blue (they just gave up, even though we were relatively matched) because Alarak was "broken". In the other game, people just started leaving cuz of Penthos (their team also had artanis which didn't help).

 

Now these games (and others like them) don't necessarily represent a good gauge of game balance, nor do they represent the whole of the player pool but things are adding up. People don't mind losing games if they actually can understand their loss, if they actually felt they could do something about it. Many times these heroes make the player feel helpless against them because of their broken skillset. Heavy handed nerfs/tweaks/redesigns for Alarak, Penthos, Artanis, and Phantom (in that order) are needed IMO. Pyro can get away with a slap on the wrist.

Edited by Jessika

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I haven't played in a while(couple of weeks) so I could be missing something, but why are a few of you suddenly speaking of Penthos? The only two recent changes made I can think of was his Ultimate+blink-storm allowing him to blink without a target(allows him to escape much easier which I didn't really like due to how strong of a chaser/catcher he is), and mainly the Phantom Menace change which really benefited this hero because of all his gapclosers (blinks). But other than Phantom Menace addition, Penthos skills have not changed much, he has always been a pub stomper but his late game is just non existent.

 

I don't understand why some of you here are suddenly re-evaluating Penthos's entire skill set.

 

I am assuming the problem here is Penthos + Phantom. Because his skillset has never been a problem prior to the New Phantom Menace.

Edited by ShoopMan

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@ShoopMan Well blackxion was saying penthos needed a buff/more mobility.

 

Anyway my thoughts

 

Alarak-Needs rly small nerf or no nerfs at all. While it still might own pubs, any decent shadow can do absolutely the same, if he gets more nerfs hes gonna be ok in pubs and useless in inhouses

 

Pyro-I would remove mov speed he gains from W, maybe even heal

 

Artanis-Most broken hero in the game, needs lot of nerfs to everything basicly

 

Penthos-Even tho I agree he deals too much dmg, I think his biggest problem is R+E shields

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When pyro didn't have move speed on his W i inhoused all the time, only me and atom played pyro during that time. He felt odd to play during that time, most games i felt i was forced into building tpi so everyone didn't get away from me, even with atom smasher. For nerfs you should really look at that passive, does too many things. You could lower the ult range if you need more nerfs, i doubt it would accomplish much though.

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When pyro didn't have move speed on his W i inhoused all the time, only me and atom played pyro during that time. He felt odd to play during that time, most games i felt i was forced into building tpi so everyone didn't get away from me, even with atom smasher. For nerfs you should really look at that passive, does too many things. You could lower the ult range if you need more nerfs, i doubt it would accomplish much though.

 

Greatly reducing the ult range isn't really about nerfing him, so much as it is about him not having that kind of tool to begin with IMO.

 

But you're right that going after the heroic passive which translates into all his other skills should be the first priority. Either it reduces healing or deals DoT, but not both. After that I'd consider reducing the healing factor of W by a tiny bit perhaps.

 

@Yaldi/Zera

 

Yes, mainly going after Penthos' E makes the most sense given this hero's role. But like you said the damage output is very high and needs an adjustment. All of this though after a deep look into Phantom Menace IMO.

 

What is this item? Offensive? Defensive? The item just gives too much, agility, spell and physical armor, one of the highest if the not the highest MS bonuses in the game. The second MS bonus, damage bonus, and invisibility altogether are overkill. All this for under 4k (not suggesting that increasing the price tag would make a big difference but still worth mentioning). I would drop the damage bonus entirely and merge the invisibility with the Travel 2 unique (gain invisibility and 12-16% MS bonus when you haven't been attacked by hero). Alternatively, if you want to keep the defensive option, then just drop the bonus damage from unique 1).

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