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WhaleTits

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any one fine shadows ult been useless for some time now, when i vs him theres like no point even needing to move out of it cause most of the time u can kill him in it pretty easy, for the effects the only thing thats good is the time scale out of it an thats it. It use to be pretty good with the old blind that it did it was longer when enemys was in it, what i fine dumb is that the meds blind is longer causes slow does damage an has shorter cdr then shadows ult.

 

Personally would like to see some thing done to his ult to make it a bit more combat worthy then just a lame gap closer or to use try an get away not saying make it broken by all means just would like to see thing done to it for the cdr on it I fine it to be one of the most useless ult skills at the moment if compared to every other hero dont get me wrong it does has it usefulness but its as a ult isn't much for such a high cdr of 120 at max.

 

If any thing it should be reworked into some thing like foes that are with in shadows realm that take damage by shadow summons 1 shadow of him self each time they take damage they deal 2%/2.5%/3% of his weapon damage, also well with in the realm could keep the time scale 10/20/30%+ an add well enemys with in it lose 10/20/30% time scale.

The summon shadows could last some thing like 3.5-5secs each.

 

But lose the blind for this kinda of change.

 

Just a thought.

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It's auto when Tass attack...

Control+Click the Q skill to take it off autocast. Shazam!!!!

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When you say something like "Added everthirst" or "Drake's E reworked extensively", you should expound on it (like copy and paste the tooltip). Otherwise we don't really know what is happening.

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Any intentions on doing anything with shadows ulti? As crimson stated I think shadows in a decent spot, but his ulti really is useless. I think expanding the blind area from maybe 3/4/5 on each level would make it better. I don't even think it blinds properly, at least when I use it appears to rarely actually blind. On top of that, they just have to move and bam they can see shade. I don't use the guy much, but when I do, I just feel his ulti isn't worthwhile as far as the blind goes. The TS is the effective part on it, and that's it imo

Edited by NeVeRWiN

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List of rly good changes, I especially likes those:

 

- Melee Lane Creep Bounty 21 -> 25. Ranged Lane Creep Bounty 18 -> 22. Siege Lane Creep Bounty 40 -> 50.

- Jungle Siege Tank Base Bounty 65 -> 55, Thor 85 -> 60

- Maximum Lane Creep Count Increase +5 -> +2

- Crit reworked to deal 100% bonus physical damage, from 50% taken physical damage. Damage dealt is now Physical type instead of True. Crit now only procs on "Weapon Damage" type effects - namely AA's, but including certain abilities, such as Omnislash and Kerrigan's Bouncing Glaives

 

Once lane creeps will start giving more minerals and EXP in compare to jungle creeps, we definitely get rid off carry jungling entire laning faze which should make it more interesting. But what about EXP distribution changes? I mean sth like:

- denying reduce more EXP than now. I'm not sure how much it is now, probably around 40-60%, it should be closer to 80-90% in my opinion.

- total EXP redistributed among the players for killing a creep has always same amount - so in double lane u get 2 times less EXP, in triple lane 3 times less. Same rule apply to neutrals.

 

That would force teams to create good lanes, focused on denies, protecting against denies, giving carry as much last hitis as possible. Besides winning 1v2 would be very rewarding (at least in EXP terms), good deny skills in mid lane would came back with glory, etc. Right now u can be in 1v2 lane where there were no denies and u are no more than 1-2 levels ahead being at level 7. In other hand u can be in 1v1 lane, deny almost every single creep and u are no more than 1-2 levels ahead being at level 7. Reward for such a dominance isn't strong enough.

Edited by Spooky

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Deny is currently -70% Exp

 

Exp sharing for creeps is currently as follows: [base EXP of Creep]*[Time Multiplier for Game Length]*[0.5 + (#Players Sharing)*0.5]

 

I have not changed these except the Base EXP of Creeps

 

----------

 

I would rather emphasis loss of gold than exp, and remove the exp penalty. This is for the following logic:

 

1)

 

Newbie vs Newbie - Neither will deny nor really last hit. Deny mechanic is almost meaningless here from a game design

 

Newbie vs Skilled Player w/ Exp Denial - Skilled Player will out last hit and deny. In this scenario, not only is the newbie put at a huge disadvantage EXP wise, he also will be behind after both players shop from an item disadvantage. It is unnecessarily punishing for the newbie, who is already out matched in terms of skill. To then say that he is going to have both fewer items AND less exp means that the lane should be basically un-salvagable because a gank will probably not result in much, and may even give the Skilled Player a kill or two.

 

Newbie vs Skilled Player w/o Exp Denial - Skilled Player will out last hit and deny. Newbie stays at a even level for the most part, assuming he is not completely harassed/zoned away. Until the skilled player shops and materializes his gold lead, they are still on relatively even footing, with a window for a comeback from an outplay or gank (its very difficult to outplay if opponent is 2 or 3 levels ahead of you).

 

Skilled Player vs Skilled Player - Both players will fight tooth and nail for each cs, regardless of exp denial, because gold advantage is a significant factor. Exp Denial is almost meaningless here from a game design because losing out on the last hit gold is already incredibly punishing. All it does is make certain matchups extremely punishing, which I think would already be the case if harassing were more potent (lowered HP regen/RIP Recovery Talent), which is more engaging to both players.

 

Thus I think if creeps are simply worth enough gold that a deny hurts in the long run - which they should be, then the exp penalty is a bad game mechanic because not only does it make the loser weaker in the long run from fewer items, but also weaker immediately, without a good chance to comeback.

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mhm but it's impossible to balance pub

But it isn't just balanced for pubs, its also balanced for IH. It doesn't have to be one way or the other, and I think the proposed mechanics do both well.

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So u want to remove exp penalty completly from deny?

Tbh I dont like that,and trust me u will never see pubber denying..

I think well rly gonna be losing something good that we had for a long time, and made denying rly important nowits all about outzoning whick wont rly work..

I would rly like to see deny unchanged

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So u want to remove exp penalty completly from deny?

Tbh I dont like that,and trust me u will never see pubber denying..

I think well rly gonna be losing something good that we had for a long time, and made denying rly important nowits all about outzoning whick wont rly work..

I would rly like to see deny unchanged

 

They way i see it is that he is changing the exp loss from a deny into more mineral loss from a deny so they are still worth doing but it will now impact scrubs less

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it would be nice to see a lane control style mechanic added to denying like;

 

slows your lanes creep movement speed by .2% for every denial, 5 minute phase (i.e. that stack achieved is removed after 5 mins)

so lets say 20 creeps per wave deniable = 4% max slow speed per wave (unsure how many waves per min??? 3?) 3 waves x 4 = 12 x 5 mins = 60% slow speed achievable

 

would make for interesting laning phases, zone control would be better & allows semi stacking of creeps to a degree

(but i stress it should be applied in the particular way that a creep spawns with that debuff, not an area of effect on the lane, thus if you have max slow speed, once you leave that lane the new creeps spawning will be consistently faster and catch the older creeps making larger creep packs)

 

it also has its drawbacks in the effect that if enemy lane is coming off stacks & you start denying your tower is going to be pushed over easily if you leave lane

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Deny is currently -70% Exp

 

Exp sharing for creeps is currently as follows: [base EXP of Creep]*[Time Multiplier for Game Length]*[0.5 + (#Players Sharing)*0.5]

 

I have not changed these except the Base EXP of Creeps

 

----------

 

I would rather emphasis loss of gold than exp, and remove the exp penalty.

70% is quite a lot, doesn't feel like that.

 

EXP sharing function makes that:

- 2 players get 0.75*EXP each (1.5 EXP together)

- 3 players get 0.66*EXP each (2 EXP together)

- 4 players get 0.625*EXP each (2.5 EXP together)

- 5 players get 0.6*EXP each (3 EXP together)

 

I think it affects gameplay a lot. Team with better spread, timings for grouping up, etc. doesn't get big EXP advantage. Actually in AoS EXP advantage u may achieve only through killing enemies by denying their time in lane/jungle as EXP for killing heroes isn't very noticeable as well. I guess that's why team which is raping and has huge dominance never get ahead more than 2-3 levels. I know that makes game more noob friendly, but also reduce general skill cap of the game.

 

Consider that EXP function: [base EXP of Creep]*[Time Multiplier for Game Length]*[sqrt(#Players Sharing)], which would give:

- 2 players get 0.7*EXP each (1.4 EXP together)

- 3 players get 0.577*EXP each (1.732 EXP together)

- 4 players get 0.5*EXP each (2 EXP together)

- 5 players get 0.447*EXP each (2,236 EXP together)

 

Just for beta test, to check out how it affects EXP in 1v2 laning and between team focused on grouping up, pushing, ganking and team focused on better spread, farming.

 

And I don't like idea of removing EXP penalty for denying. Of course that will make game more noob friendly, but also will make learning curve more flat. But when new player can notice a difference between himself and other player who outplayed him in lane, then he will faster focus on better last hitting and denying. He will also notice how rewarding is his increasing last hitting skills. There has to be a good reward for being better, to promote learning. That's why I'm for direction of increasing skill cap, not decreasing it even more.

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