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EDIT: Okay I've got it! (I hope!) Not trying to post whore, just kind of having difficulties uploading this image :(.

 

 

So I felt bad that I didn't have any suggestions to help figure out a way to fix the rating and I felt like I was just complaining with no reason. So, I've created an idea. I tried to include something to help the individual players per game as well as the team aspects. Unfortunately I do not know enough about the editor to know if these are possible, but I felt creative and enjoyed doing this. I really feel this could help balance the ratings or at least expand them up. There are 28 different badges and almost all, including great players are in the bottom 12. I hope we can open it up so Diamond and maybe Masters is achievable to the really good gamers.

 

I took this seriously and spent more time than I'd like to admit working on this so I hope you guys give it a serious look too, even if the balance is off or some ideas aren't agreed with I think there are lots of different things that may even inspire better ideas.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read my post! Also--- if it's fuzzy I had to upload it to photobucket since it was too large to attach directly here.

 

 

Attached in the spoiler is an image describing the rating system I came up with.

 

 

 

If you click on the image, it will take you to photobucket where you can zoom in for a more readable and clear image!

(Simply push the magnifying glass in the bottom right corner of the image when on photobucket. It will then open in a preview window, then zoom again for full size.)

Sry, I'm nub at forums.

AoS-1.png

 

 

Edited by Allstar

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I like the effort, but Red already hit the reason why rating doesn't make a difference. There's no matchmaking system. Until that gets implemented rating will just be something shiny for people to collect with no real meaning or effect on the game.

 

The intention for rating as it is was to discourage leavers... All I'm saying is that there's so much dropping and "you lost rating for quitting your previous game" even when you didn't, it doesn't even work for that.

 

The way it's scored isn't the biggest issue... It's the fact that it doesn't work.

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Thanks for taking the time to read my post! Also--- if it's fuzzy I had to upload it to photobucket since it was too large to attach directly here.

k/d ratio should always be kills/death+1, to correct for 0 death games.

Also you can't determine if players were in party. Impossible feature.

Rest looks good

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k/d ratio should always be kills/(death+1), to correct for 0 death games.

Also you can't determine if players were in party. Impossible feature.

Rest looks good

 

That's what you meant right? The problem with this is that the k/d ratio becomes meaningless in all cases apart from #deaths=0 or #deaths large. It's much smarter to define k/d ratio as #kills/#deaths with the special case that k/d ratio is defined as #kills whenever #deaths=0. This solves the dividing by zero problem just fine, whilst still maintaining a meaningful k/d ratio.

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Zeeeend is right...... you cant determine if they players were in party or not but the other sounds cool , btw

 

im confused....

Lets say I start a game... and i'm gold... i get a kd of 12/3/7 for example....

my opponents were 3 bronzes, 1 silver, 1 gold,

What is the mount of point i will be winning and when will my badge go to the next one?

 

if im gold i have +3 ? so if for a win i get +25 what rank will I be now ?? idk can u

explain?

so with that ranking system you dont start at 1,500 anymore? and if not. At what point will you start getting new badges? 100-200-300 ? each 100 points.. 50 points? or what?

 

From Ginosaji: Don't spam with bold/colored/oversize font.

Edited by ginosaji

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CoolNoob, if you are the bottom gold in that situation you would get 6-8 based off opponents rating depending on what level silver and what level gold was on the opposing team, then factor in +3 bonus for the 4:1 KDR, and +1 more for 2:1 assist/death ratio. Final score at end of game is +10-12 depending on the level of gold and silver you vsd. In current system I believe you would likely be getting 4-5 points in that situation.

 

Good questions CoolNoob, I think if enough interest is expressed I'll put a bit more thought into whether it were 1500 or 100,200,300, or some other scheme. In the end I would want whatever is most balanced to paint a semi-accurate picture of skill differential.

 

Zeeeeeeeeend, good point, perhaps setting an "if/then" rule that if the number of kills or deaths = 0 then divide by 1? Dividing by zero can be dangerous...

 

Ginosaji... Do you know if there is any kind of timeline for a matchmaking system? I'm not sure if I am remembering correctly or not, but I think I read somewhere that matchmaking isn't a current blizzard feature right now? I am not really sure, sorry. Oh geeze, I will be super embarrassed if that was mentioned in this thread just one or two pages ago. I'm going to risk it! :D.

 

I'm just trying to help offer a solution since I have seen a couple posts complaining about the ratings system and I figured instead of joining in the complaining, I'll try to offer a little help. I don't expect it to be a complete solution but maybe someone's creative mind will find a way to use something of what I posted and make it purposeful.

Edited by Allstar

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CoolNoob, if you are the bottom gold in that situation you would get 6-8 based off opponents rating depending on what level silver and what level gold was on the opposing team, then factor in +3 bonus for the 4:1 KDR, and +1 more for 2:1 assist/death ratio. Final score at end of game is +10-12 depending on the level of gold and silver you vsd. In current system I believe you would likely be getting 4-5 points in that situation.

 

Good questions CoolNoob, I think if enough interest is expressed I'll put a bit more thought into whether it were 1500 or 100,200,300, or some other scheme. In the end I would want whatever is most balanced to paint a semi-accurate picture of skill differential.

 

Zeeeeeeeeend, good point, perhaps setting an "if/then" rule that if the number of kills or deaths = 0 then divide by 1? Dividing by zero can be dangerous...

 

Ginosaji... Do you know if there is any kind of timeline for a matchmaking system? I'm not sure if I am remembering correctly or not, but I think I read somewhere that matchmaking isn't a current blizzard feature right now? I am not really sure, sorry. Oh geeze, I will be super embarrassed if that was mentioned in this thread just one or two pages ago. I'm going to risk it! :D.

 

I'm just trying to help offer a solution since I have seen a couple posts complaining about the ratings system and I figured instead of joining in the complaining, I'll try to offer a little help. I don't expect it to be a complete solution but maybe someone's creative mind will find a way to use something of what I posted and make it purposeful.

 

I appreciate you efforts trying to help bruh :D

 

 

Edit: Color and size of font.

Edited by ginosaji

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I like the effort, but Red already hit the reason why rating doesn't make a difference. There's no matchmaking system. Until that gets implemented rating will just be something shiny for people to collect with no real meaning or effect on the game.

 

The intention for rating as it is was to discourage leavers... All I'm saying is that there's so much dropping and "you lost rating for quitting your previous game" even when you didn't, it doesn't even work for that.

 

The way it's scored isn't the biggest issue... It's the fact that it doesn't work.

 

So let me get this straight - the rating system was initially intended to discourage leaving. But, then it broke. Now, you see no reason to fix it because there is no matchmaking system? Seems a little illogical to me, but then again im probably oversimplifying it.

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So let me get this straight - the rating system was initially intended to discourage leaving. But, then it broke. Now, you see no reason to fix it because there is no matchmaking system? Seems a little illogical to me, but then again im probably oversimplifying it.

no your right on the money, half of us even predicted it would break in this exact same way before it was even released but eh... what you gonna do?

IMO just make it;

1 win = 1 point

leaving = -2 points

it should be designed to tell you how experienced your team is so you can help them & discourage leavers,

currently no one cares about it because its a meaningless system because people drop too much to care about trying to maintain a rating that isnt maintainable when you lose 24 points for dropping or losing and only get 1 point for a win...

Edited by ANARCHY

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Allstar, nice idea. But imo gettin most of rating with the help of your team doesnt make much sense. Its your private rating, that actually depends A LOT on others rather than on you. Ye, this is a teamgame. But still imo k/d/a needs to be the main key in a good rating. I had a lot of games in which I had 2:1 k/d but whole team would die non stop, and even tho I was warding whole game, was trying hardest not to die, asking em to back etc, I lost as much in rating, as the them (pretty much), which makes no sense.

 

I would sent everyone to bronze with 0 rating. Would give points per game for k/d/a as you explained it. Would remove or add 3 pts for the lose/win. Also would give 1 point for warding in a game, 1 point for denied more than 30 creeps, 1 point for dewarding, and 3 points per EACH godlike. That way if lets say, you win a game with kd 27:0:2. You get 3 pts per each godlike (9 in total), 3 pts for good k/s, 2 pts for assists, and 3 pts, 1 for warding, 1 for denying more than 20 creeps, and 1 for dewarding. So max per a game a player can get 21 points. Worst scenario gives you -3 pts per a game. Every drop is another -10 pts (so that even if you were dropped you still can get some of the points back next game, or during that same game, in which u will get dropped, u might get a godlike, denies, warding, and after a drop from this game you will get -5 points.

 

To get into silver one needs to have 100 pts (which is 5-7 games for a good player). Gold is 300 pts (which is like 15-30 games). Platinum is 600 pts (30-50 games), diamond is like 1200 and masters is 2000, gm is 4000 pts (which is like 100 perfect games or in reality it'll be something like 150-200 games with a good quality games). That way even if a player hack his bank, it still requires A LOT of games to climb the top. And if you dont do much and play with supports you still can get a decent rating after certain amount of games.

 

Giving badges for tourney wins is a bad idea. It doesnt stimulate those players to actually play pubs. Giving gold to noobs is bad too (they need to work hard on the points, not to remove bank file and get back into gold).

 

If I would own this game, I would add as many "badges" into the game, as possible. Different achievements would actually make people play more. For tourney win I would make something special (maybe glowing hero or something like that). For a certain amount of games I would add new heroes into the pool, new skins etc. I would add hall of game on the site with replay base. I would add some bonuses for most experience etc. I would make best denier of a month etc.

Edited by mynhauzen

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In SC1 V-Tec Paintball, Team Micro Arena, SCV Football, Strip Hermione Granger, Kerrigan Has Sex With Duke, sunken defense 2006, and Snowball Wars the players were able to switch teams in lobby. Can that feature be activated somehow? I play this game to keep in contact with RL friends that I haven't seen in years, I'd hate to join a game and get auto balanced to a different team and not even get to play with them.

SC1 HAS THOSE TYPE OF GAMES, OMG OMG OMG, I MUST PLAY IT

 

 

 

Back to the topic, I don't feel there's a need to change rating because rating doesnt show your skills, you could have just pubstomped a lot, a better rating badge just makes you feel good, i like silver rating badges.

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Remember that Blizzard gave to arcade game some certain of limits, they can do much as you want.

 

@mynhauzen If everyone who get GODLIKE or LUDACRIS.. gets extra points is kind of lame, cuz you will see everyone in pubs playing AA heroes.. so where it will be the support and tank heroes? how we rank them? :)

 

This will improve with the time maybe after Blizzard patch when we hope will be double of players, maybe it will be more easy to match a game within your rank.

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Allstar, nice idea. But imo gettin most of rating with the help of your team doesnt make much sense. Its your private rating, that actually depends A LOT on others rather than on you. Ye, this is a teamgame. But still imo k/d/a needs to be the main key in a good rating. I had a lot of games in which I had 2:1 k/d but whole team would die non stop, and even tho I was warding whole game, was trying hardest not to die, asking em to back etc, I lost as much in rating, as the them (pretty much), which makes no sense.

 

With the system I created in losses you can still get bonus points for having a good KDR, and a good Assist/DR so if you played well but your team still lost, instead of losing 10 points (using 10 for round number), your bonuses for playing well can reduce the hit up to 6 points if you had 4:1:4 K/D/A ratio. However, I am of the thought that this is a team game so I don't think points should be gained if your team loses, but instead of losing 24 points for playing well and maybe carrying a ton of feeders, having leavers/droppers, and still being unable to compensate for the teams skill differences, you would still have the chance instead to lose as little as 4 points. Less points will be gained with rank increase so to further increase rank the bonuses will be required to continue gaining good points, be that a good carry getting the KDR bonus, or a good tank getting Assist/DR bonus. I tried to create something that rewards all style players and isn't restricted solely to team based scoring.

 

This is a team game so I think team scoring should always have a large impact, but in the current system I think team losses hurt a bit too much compared to how many points are awarded for wins. I think it is too strict to need to win 3-4 in a row to gain 20 only to lose 24 points in 1 game.

 

Also, I went with a simple idea with room to expand, to add godlike bonuses if they could be balanced. I think a simple plan is the best way to get an actual change to happen and then over time make the small adjustments needed. You have some good ideas too, and I hope that maybe we can make a change.

 

@mynhauzen If everyone who get GODLIKE or LUDACRIS.. gets extra points is kind of lame, cuz you will see everyone in pubs playing AA heroes.. so where it will be the support and tank heroes? how we rank them? :)

 

This will improve with the time maybe after Blizzard patch when we hope will be double of players, maybe it will be more easy to match a game within your rank.

 

GuZ makes a good point, pubs are already full of AA heroes and I enjoy playing tanks and support which really limits how many points I can receive.

 

@GuZ when is the next blizzard patch? Are you talking about the Legacy of the Void? We haven't moved to HotS content yet though, so I'm trying to find a more immediate solution to get the ranks functional. They may still not be perfect in the beginning but I think we should do something to fix what a lot of people regard as a broken system. Lots of players actually do care about their ratings and hope for a system that they can strive to improve within. Yes, lots of players will likely increase out of Gold in the beginning, but over time it will balance out, and small adjustments can be made along the way to help the scores. In my system one of the focus's is limiting loss hits so than a win:loss ratio of 2:1 is rewarded as such but it currently takes 3-4 wins to make up for one loss just to maintain the default rating. This is what I hoped we could fix.

 

Back to the topic, I don't feel there's a need to change rating because rating doesnt show your skills, you could have just pubstomped a lot, a better rating badge just makes you feel good, i like silver rating badges.

 

To me I believe if the ratings do not show your skills, then we should think about changing it if they aren't reflecting what they're supposed to.

 

EDIT: Lol oh no, I'm starting to make long posts, I'll try to keep em shorter so they're easier to read, or start adding TL;DR :D

Edited by Allstar

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To me I believe if the ratings do not show your skills, then we should think about changing it if they aren't reflecting what they're supposed to.

 

I didn't think it was ever intended, it was to give you a badge so you had an idea how experienced your team is & help them appropriately

i think i heard a while ago that it used to be you could see peoples ratings in tab screen which just caused mass rq's all the time due to nubs joining & thats no fun

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Allstar, nice idea. But imo gettin most of rating with the help of your team doesnt make much sense. Its your private rating, that actually depends A LOT on others rather than on you. Ye, this is a teamgame. But still imo k/d/a needs to be the main key in a good rating. I had a lot of games in which I had 2:1 k/d but whole team would die non stop, and even tho I was warding whole game, was trying hardest not to die, asking em to back etc, I lost as much in rating, as the them (pretty much), which makes no sense.

 

I would sent everyone to bronze with 0 rating. Would give points per game for k/d/a as you explained it. Would remove or add 3 pts for the lose/win. Also would give 1 point for warding in a game, 1 point for denied more than 30 creeps, 1 point for dewarding, and 3 points per EACH godlike. That way if lets say, you win a game with kd 27:0:2. You get 3 pts per each godlike (9 in total), 3 pts for good k/s, 2 pts for assists, and 3 pts, 1 for warding, 1 for denying more than 20 creeps, and 1 for dewarding. So max per a game a player can get 21 points. Worst scenario gives you -3 pts per a game. Every drop is another -10 pts (so that even if you were dropped you still can get some of the points back next game, or during that same game, in which u will get dropped, u might get a godlike, denies, warding, and after a drop from this game you will get -5 points.

 

To get into silver one needs to have 100 pts (which is 5-7 games for a good player). Gold is 300 pts (which is like 15-30 games). Platinum is 600 pts (30-50 games), diamond is like 1200 and masters is 2000, gm is 4000 pts (which is like 100 perfect games or in reality it'll be something like 150-200 games with a good quality games). That way even if a player hack his bank, it still requires A LOT of games to climb the top. And if you dont do much and play with supports you still can get a decent rating after certain amount of games.

 

Giving badges for tourney wins is a bad idea. It doesnt stimulate those players to actually play pubs. Giving gold to noobs is bad too (they need to work hard on the points, not to remove bank file and get back into gold).

 

If I would own this game, I would add as many "badges" into the game, as possible. Different achievements would actually make people play more. For tourney win I would make something special (maybe glowing hero or something like that). For a certain amount of games I would add new heroes into the pool, new skins etc. I would add hall of game on the site with replay base. I would add some bonuses for most experience etc. I would make best denier of a month etc.

so sad... Bro if EKCO would just listen to us (THE people of aos... We form this community, maybe for high skilled players rating and badges is nothing but for the new player that just joined the game and see people with good badges they want it... They want to improve

 

 

Some people just think for themselves.. Good changes = stronger community...

 

Edited by CoolNoob

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Allstar, well in fact I dont think your rating changes anything the way it is shown now. The biggest problem right now is that you're basically pushed into playing in premades or you need to cheat with bankfile in order to show off. I would rather have a system that will make as many players to get as much positive experiences as possible. No MMR means no balance. No balance means me, who plays since v3 have to play with players who doesnt know what is a scan etc almost every game I play. I dont really see how your system enhances my personal experience playing this game. It will mean that I have to play a lot and still it all will come down to how others play. I want to see who is good and who is bad.

 

To be honest I really loved seeing rating in the beginning of the game right away. I want to know right away, if im with a team of 1:3 kd teammates and have to pick some rubbish like a shadow and hope that other team wont hard counter me. Or I can ez mode some hero I dont really know how to play.

 

A lot of the time I'm playing a roulette picking a hero not knowing who's with me. Playing tank and realizing after 10 minutes, that all carries we have are afk/dropped/feeding doesnt help me getting positive experience.

I want to have a proper system that would tell me right away, if my team is good or bad compared to the other. Or I would love to see some balanced teams. Your system doesnt fix any of those problems.

Its not a problem to add points for supports. But I feel like they shouldnt be easier than getting a godlike or a ludacris. Ffs most players had what, 5 ludacris kills in their life at max?

 

Regarding to what Guz said. Well, Guz. You're not getting godlikes every game, arent you? Godlike (that a good player gets once in 2-3 games at max?) actually requires skill. You killed 9 people and didnt die. Well I feel like this should be shown in rating, that a player doesnt die much but kills a lot. I feel like devs could add some points that would be hard to do in a game but would give you rating for supports actions. I already posted those ideas while ago.

For instance you can give points for lets say = 10 good pulls with a bola, microes throw or drake. You can get points for de-warding, for warding. For denying. You can get points for auras, successful healing (maybe 50 successful heals). For switching on actives that help your teammates. Something like 20 times made your teammates run faster? get +1 in rating. In fact I would write that somewhere during the game in a left corner so that new players actually realize that its useful to actually heal people. Or to actually use actives. Or to actually stun with rancor instead of last hit from the bushes.

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so sad... Bro if EKCO would just listen to us (THE people of aos... We form this community, maybe for high skilled players rating and badges is nothing but for the new player that just joined the game and see people with good badges they want it... They want to improve

 

 

Some people just think for themselves.. Good changes = stronger community...

 

Ironically If a new player were to join the game right now… He has the highest rating LOL. He is gold, and everyone else is at best Silver.

 

The system itself is also snowballing. More points are lost for leaving, and there are fewer and fewer higher ranking players to "earn" points off of.

My Win/Loss ratio is about 2… My rating with drops etc fluctuates between 1250-1450. I have noticed it getting lower and lower.

 

Ironically a GOLD badge = a noob to me. Silver and bronze means more games played. The system is basically reversed. Plat badge makes me think they are a cheater LOL.

 

To even have this system remotely come close to working, just look at ginosaji's posts

 

1) Game Crashing at end of game causing all players to lose MASSIVE rating needs to be fixed. Pure and simple no one can beat the auto drop

 

2) The mere penalty for leaving games will eventually result in points "syphoned" from the system, causing ratings to round down over time.

 

 

 

My solution so far:

 

Ignore the badge. It is meaningless :)

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This might sound harsh but truth to be told the current rating system is about as bad as it gets in terms of reflecting someone's rank. Any changes will be a huge improvement on the current system.

 

 

I guess the following is obvious to everyone:

 

Bronze is the most accurate rank.

 

Silver involves all kind of players as you start out as low gold, and pretty much get demoted regardless of performance.

The only silvers badges that's accurate are the low tier ones as the rest can be anything from a regular ih player into someone who just started playing aos and just got demoted from gold.

 

Majority of the gold badges are just new players which would fit in better with a bronze badge.

 

Platinum usually means ur an ok player, but you'd probably be better if you invested the time it takes to replace ur bankfile after every loss with actually playing the game.

 

Tourney badges: overrated if you ask me, only a handful of the people with tourney badges actually have skill equivalent with the rarity of the badge. For example 1/3 of the participating people in the last tourney was rewarded with some kind of tourney badge? I guess they work as some kind of promotion for tourneys tho, might as well make a tournament participant badge to solve the marketing issue.

Then I might end up with one of these cool badges myself :)

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Ironically a GOLD badge = a noob to me. Silver and bronze means more games played. The system is basically reversed. Plat badge makes me think they are a cheater LOL.

Preach! I was saying the same thing earlier today to a friend.

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This might sound harsh but truth to be told the current rating system is about as bad as it gets in terms of reflecting someone's rank. Any changes will be a huge improvement on the current system.

 

 

I guess the following is obvious to everyone:

 

Bronze is the most accurate rank.

 

Silver involves all kind of players as you start out as low gold, and pretty much get demoted regardless of performance.

The only silvers badges that's accurate are the low tier ones as the rest can be anything from a regular ih player into someone who just started playing aos and just got demoted from gold.

 

Majority of the gold badges are just new players which would fit in better with a bronze badge.

 

Platinum usually means ur an ok player, but you'd probably be better if you invested the time it takes to replace ur bankfile after every loss with actually playing the game.

 

Tourney badges: overrated if you ask me, only a handful of the people with tourney badges actually have skill equivalent with the rarity of the badge. For example 1/3 of the participating people in the last tourney was rewarded with some kind of tourney badge? I guess they work as some kind of promotion for tourneys tho, might as well make a tournament participant badge to solve the marketing issue.

Then I might end up with one of these cool badges myself :)

I agree with your afore mentioned things about the rankings, bronze isn't fairly accurate but people do make them selves bronzers on purpose. Anyone silver is the least accuarate because it has such a vast range of skills bundled into one badge, with gold being the standard for beginners because gold is the entry level ranking.

 

My real tiff with what you said is about the tourney badges. I mean this respectfully but your wrong about your last statement. Overrated? Nope. People who have such a rare badge aren't skilled with the equivalent rating? Wrong again. First off there were 16 teams not 12, so 1/4 of the teams entered received them. As well as they weren't just handed out, only finalists and semi-finalists received them. As well as all the people who did get them are way above 95% of the entire AoS community as far as skill, knowledge and understanding of ALL aspects of the game. I dont mean to be rude, but your last paragraph was ignorant, quite rude and ill educated. So they are not just "handed" out as you said.

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I dont mean to be rude, but your last paragraph was ignorant.

 

This sir, is an oxymoron.

 

I'm out of this thread though, a lot of people have made good points and hopefully some progress was made, but it seems like it's starting down that oh so familiar path. Devs I hope the contributions in this post help, and I hope that we can get the much anticipated rating system to a level worthy of AoS! Good day!

Edited by Allstar

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I dont mean to be rude, but your last paragraph was ignorant, quite rude and ill educated. So they are not just "handed" out as you said.

lawl. I dont think there's a more achieved aos player in the history of this mod than John. He is a top. Tier 1 player. Superman in the comic universe. He can say whatever he wants. He's like Jean Claude Van Dam in the latest Volvo commercial :D

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Maybe I was incorrect on his ignorance, but thats not an oxymoron. Calling someone ignorant could come off as being rude, when I wasn't trying to be rude at all. Using rude and ignorant in the same statement doesn't make it an oxymoron. I was just stating my opinion of disagreement.

Edited by NeVeRWiN

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