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JustZerO

500% Weapon Speed cap

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pls guys, this is ridiculous.

 

it was so obvious that this would be OP for dps chars. and what do we have now? with leech talent and 1 leech item, AA heroes almost never die. they rock like crazy, i don't know what made you change the attack speed cap by such a huge deal.

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played a game with cain. guess what, i lolled into my enemies face :D weapon speed ownage. same happened when i played with darpa. go 2vs1 with leech sword in inventory and leech talent, and kill both

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i played with darpa. go 2vs1 with leech sword in inventory and leech talent, and kill both

 

but you had max attack speed right? anyway is bad because i cant enter starcraft :(

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Kerrigan is OP with crit build.

 

Lethal Barb, Cerebro, Arcbound Ravanger, Force of Entropy, Khali Blade and Darwin's Might was ridiculously OP.

Ran into their base, me and all 5 (maybe 4) at full health- as far as I can remember, Cracky, Shadow, DARPA, Ironhide and maybe someone else.

Attack T4 tower.

Don't die from 2 creep waves around me.

Enemy heroes arrive whilst I have destroyed the tower and have 2 sets of parasites up- massascred them accidentally. Used 2 boomerangs and got 1/2 my cooldown off my ulti.

 

She is quite OP with the cap increased. Have you seen what Cerebro and Lethal Barb do now!? It's craaaaazy on all charecters, but particularlly Kerry, Shadow, Grunty and Ling. Lethal Barb gives way too much with this patch- but, it's not the OP item- the cap is what needs to be changed.

The cap increase is definatly OP. Shadow takes the (censored) with it, though. You cannot target him. Although, I still threw enough boomerangs from Lethal Barbed to destroy him.

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I'm not sure if people understand what moving the attack speed cap from 350% to 500% actually means. This is NOT an increase in base attack speed, instead it's an increase in max attack speed. Previously, the 350% cap meant your max attack speed was your base attack speed divided by 3.5 (e.g. Nova has a base attack speed of 1.75, meaning her previous max attack speed was 0.50). Now, your max attack speed is your base divided by 5.0 (e.g. for Nova, max is now 0.35). I believe that the reason this change was made was because it was too easy to reach max attack speed, meaning some items whose value was significantly tied to being able to temporarily maximize attack speed (e.g. Hand of Mengsk) weren't very useful (at least relative to alternatives of similar cost). Realistically, in practice this change probably isn't going to increase attack speed significantly for most heroes, since reaching the attack speed cap will probably require sacrificing some other valuable item that might do more to improve your overall build.

 

Also, if Stun Baton becomes too strong as a result of this change, that particular item can be changed to compensate... In other words, just because a change that may open the game up to greater flexibility in builds makes one item too strong doesn't mean the change itself is bad.

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This is a huge buff to Lethal Barb. Its also not hard to max attack speed with agi heroes, even with the new cap. I think it was an entirely unnecessary change.

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What peas said, ignoring lethal barb it takes 3* attack speed items to max out weapon speed on an agi carry (most of em anyway)

 

If novas critting for 1k dmg (basically if you made a nova) Old nova could do 3k dmg in 1.5 seconds, new nova is doing 4k and then some. Not including the 25% bonus to crit dmg. Just the attack speed cap change alone gives a 33% bonus to her dmg.

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Previously, the 350% cap meant your max attack speed was your base attack speed divided by 3.5 (e.g. Nova has a base attack speed of 1.75, meaning her previous max attack speed was 0.50). Now, your max attack speed is your base divided by 5.0 (e.g. for Nova, max is now 0.35). Realistically, in practice this change probably isn't going to increase attack speed significantly for most heroes, since reaching the attack speed cap will probably require sacrificing some other valuable item that might do more to improve your overall build.

 

The change from 0.50 max attack speed to 0.35 max attack speed is essentially the difference between 2 and 3 attacks per second. For heroes like Voltron and Cain with built in attack speed, this is extremely powerful. For anybody considering getting the item Lethal Barb, this is also extremely powerful.

 

I think it should be reverted.

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You can test for yourselves, but in my tests, it takes 4 or 5 attack speed items to get max attack speed. I agree that if you can reach max attack speed, you are attacking at a significantly higher rate (e.g. for Nova, you are talking about a 43% increase in max attacks per second). However, that doesn't mean you are doing 43% more damage as you will have to sacrifice items that increase your damage per attack in order to maximize your attack speed. Perhaps 500% is too high, but I think that the reasoning underlying the change is sound (i.e. to increase the utility of skills, talents, or items that provide a temporary boost in weapon speed such as lethal barb, hand of mengsk, and haste). If 500% is too high, it can be changed (or attack speed bonuses can be scaled down), but I don't think it should be reverted just because it's possibly too high.

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pls guys, this is ridiculous.

 

it was so obvious that this would be OP for dps chars. and what do we have now? with leech talent and 1 leech item, AA heroes almost never die. they rock like crazy, i don't know what made you change the attack speed cap by such a huge deal.

 

I don't really feel the difference with the new attack speed cap. I play mostly In House games in NA server.

 

Here is my item suggestions when against heavy AA hero team:

 

:ShrapnelCloak: :ShrapnelCloak: :ShrapnelCloak: :ShrapnelCloak: :ShrapnelCloak: :ShrapnelCloak:

 

I hope it helps you a little bit.

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I think increasing the attack speed cap is a very poor way to try and buff certain items...most of which didnt really need buffs. Just buff the item, dont change fundamental mechanics that afford AA heroes the potential to become significantly stronger than they already are.

 

There was a discussion around HoM one night with Ekco present...and most people agreed it was an item that didnt see much use. While this is true, I dont think we should care to balance items such that they all get used with equal frequency. It is ok for certain items to be niche items. HoM was/is a niche item that is still useful if you think you can snowball early.

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an agi carry with pyre, time splitter, his natural agi and maybe one more agi or ws item like shinobi, aggresor guise, stun baton, shadowmourne, etc can reach attack speed cap and then buy 2 or 3 pure damage items

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Kerrigan is OP with crit build.

 

Lethal Barb, Cerebro, Arcbound Ravanger, Force of Entropy, Khali Blade and Darwin's Might was ridiculously OP.

Ran into their base, me and all 5 (maybe 4) at full health- as far as I can remember, Cracky, Shadow, DARPA, Ironhide and maybe someone else.

Attack T4 tower.

Don't die from 2 creep waves around me.

Enemy heroes arrive whilst I have destroyed the tower and have 2 sets of parasites up- massascred them accidentally. Used 2 boomerangs and got 1/2 my cooldown off my ulti.

 

She is quite OP with the cap increased. Have you seen what Cerebro and Lethal Barb do now!? It's craaaaazy on all charecters, but particularlly Kerry, Shadow, Grunty and Ling. Lethal Barb gives way too much with this patch- but, it's not the OP item- the cap is what needs to be changed.

The cap increase is definatly OP. Shadow takes the (censored) with it, though. You cannot target him. Although, I still threw enough boomerangs from Lethal Barbed to destroy him.

 

Even before Shadow was hard to attack, now its just ridiculous. There should be an option to make your hero have a higher affinity for auto attacking heroes (toggleable option which everyone would defo use late game).

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I don't really feel the difference with the new attack speed cap. I play mostly In House games in NA server.

 

Here is my item suggestions when against heavy AA hero team:

 

:ShrapnelCloak: :ShrapnelCloak: :ShrapnelCloak: :ShrapnelCloak: :ShrapnelCloak: :ShrapnelCloak:

 

I hope it helps you a little bit.

Item Activates share a Cooldown so it wouldnt counter D: since activating all shud make CD on all shrapnels unless this item is special?

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I don't really understand how the Cap works. It says its a 500% (which at the attack speed seems plausible) but it seems like items that raise by 25% should really be effective. I mean if you have 300 Agi (which is alot) and items that stack up to 100% weapon speed, well 10 agi = 3% weapon speed, meaning that it should only actually grant 190% Attack speed, (not even close to cap) yet it seems to basicly cap. I just don't understand the scaling. It seems like an item that says +25% Weapon speed is considered +50% Weapon speed, and weapon speed + doesn't seem like it would stack but I guess it does. I know losing attack speed works that way but it just seems like gaining Weapon speed would be a fix amount instead of stacking on top of each other. (Exmaple: +100% weapon speed would then make a 25% weapon speed item give 50% weapon speed, making you at 150% causing a +50% to really grant +125% or something like that. Similar toward how movement speed works). ??? I'd like someone to explain it.

To put it simple: Does Increasing Attack Speed Stack on each other similar to the way movement speed stacks?

If so, it makes sense why its incrediabley easy to max it out, if not, how the heck is it capping so easily when the % is so high.

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an agi carry with pyre, time splitter, his natural agi and maybe one more agi or ws item like shinobi, aggresor guise, stun baton, shadowmourne, etc can reach attack speed cap and then buy 2 or 3 pure damage items

 

Not according to my (brief) tests. Even with the attack speed talent, I wasn't able to reach max attack speed without at least four attack speed items.

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