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Shab

Drafting guide by Shablagoo

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New to the forum and only play PUB games. Helped me understand how the IH players choose heroes. Truly wish the PUB games had this draft system built in. Thank you for the guide!

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i feel that micro tanks in the fact that he jumps in and often gets the other team to waste abilities on him and then is able to jump back out again without dieing. so while other tanks just take the dmg micro will take some then jump(dodging potential dmg) out heal with organic/spellbuffer then jump back in again with full health. a micro with 3.5k hp is much harder to kill than a balrog with 6.5k hp and can sometimes tank more.

 

edit: that being said balrog tanks very well

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i feel that micro tanks in the fact that he jumps in and often gets the other team to waste abilities on him and then is able to jump back out again without dieing. so while other tanks just take the dmg micro will take some then jump out heal with organic/spellbuffer then jump back in again with full health. a micro with 3.5k hp is much harder to kill than a balrog with 6.5k hp.

 

The idea is, however, that it doesn't matter who is harder to kill. Balrog goes in, and by virtue of not going out, forces you to decide to ignore him entirely while he ulties one of you, jumps on another and is a general big(literal) nuisance - or expend 6.5k worth of damage to kill him... 6.5k damage that aren't being dealt to other heroes in his team. Assuming a team has good coordination he will immediately be backed up after he goes in, which means that even as he dies (which he will) he will tank a whopping 6.5k worth of damage and hopefully that will win the teamfight for his team.

 

Micro/Drake are initiators, and thus not purebred tanks - they rely on their initiates, and their items will show this :)

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The idea is, however, that it doesn't matter who is harder to kill. Balrog goes in, and by virtue of not going out, forces you to decide to ignore him entirely while he ulties one of you, jumps on another and is a general big(literal) nuisance - or expend 6.5k worth of damage to kill him... 6.5k damage that aren't being dealt to other heroes in his team. Assuming a team has good coordination he will immediately be backed up after he goes in, which means that even as he dies (which he will) he will tank a whopping 6.5k worth of damage and hopefully that will win the teamfight for his team.

 

Micro/Drake are initiators, and thus not purebred tanks - they rely on their initiates, and their items will show this :)

 

im not disagreeing with u im just saying that micro tanks in a different sort of way but yes balrog is a pure tank while micro is an initiator/tank. i just like with micro's 2 blinks he can dodge many abilities and its hard to put how much hp dodging gives u. it could be just 200 dmg or it could be u dodged 3k dmg. one way u are making them deal dmg too u the other u are getting them to waste their abilities on nothing. though the first way is always better if u can survive (which usually balrog can)

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im not disagreeing with u im just saying that micro tanks in a different sort of way but yes balrog is a pure tank while micro is an initiator/tank. i just like with micro's 2 blinks he can dodge many abilities and its hard to put how much hp dodging gives u. it could be just 200 dmg or it could be u dodged 3k dmg. one way u are making them deal dmg too u the other u are getting them to waste their abilities on nothing. though the first way is always better if u can survive (which usually balrog can)

 

Yeah, I guess we agree with eachother on most points. In my mind a hero like Micro will tank by "being hard to kill" and a hero like Balrog will tank by "not going away". The team will not want to go on Micro cause "he will blink away", "don't go on micro, he will throw if you get close". He is an incredibly good initiator, but Balrog simply gets in your face and stays there until he or you are dead.

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Yeah, I guess we agree with eachother on most points. In my mind a hero like Micro will tank by "being hard to kill" and a hero like Balrog will tank by "not going away". The team will not want to go on Micro cause "he will blink away", "don't go on micro, he will throw if you get close". He is an incredibly good initiator, but Balrog simply gets in your face and stays there until he or you are dead.

 

"balrog doesnt need an escape mechanic. he escapes by being the last one left alive" -Marche

 

i think micro tanks better against scrubs than he does against people that know that they are doing. but even then many times all the enemy team will see is a micro blink in and so often even the best players will try to see if the can get the micro before he gets away.

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Pretty much what Soedenone said. There is a lot of "tanky" heroes, or "abilities that makes a hero more tanky", but that doesn't make them tanks, while some may disagree, I think most people will agree that there's no incentive to try to kill a Micro after he has thrown somebody. I mean, killing enemies is always good, but you always want to focus the squishy heroes first, simply because they're easier to kill (and often times deal out more damage than the more tanky heroes). The so called tanky heroes, also usually have a role in the team. The different roles used in DotA/AoS is something along the lines of this:

Carry/DPS

Initiator

Caster/Support

Nuker.

 

Probably missed something, but all in all, you can probably put every hero in AoS into one of this category. You put heroes into roles that fit what they do, not what they are. For instance, you wouldn't say Nova's hero role is squishy. It's dps, the same goes for Micro, his role is initiator (well you can build him dps, and it's fun, but then his role is dps, still not tank). In other words, the only hero in the game that somewhat fits the role of a tank (a hero the other team has an incentive to attack), and doesn't really fit into any other role (you can play him as dps too) is balrog.

 

 

The reason you would ever try to kill micro/drake is if you manage to silence them first, so you can kill them before they get off their huge initiation spells. No sane person will try to kill a drake while he's recovering hp from his ultimate.

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Troll response. "Looks good, although I didn't read, it is long so must be good".

 

@OP

Good guide would read again 8/10

 

Reported, for calling my response to troll response!

Btw still liking this tread, though it is quite long, but the hero tiers, I felt were pretty good and definitely on par while what heroes should or shouldn't be picked first etc!

I do however feel Tychus won't be situational... At best this hero, even when he gets nerfed will still be able to full-fill all roles, as I doubt his skill set will change ;) also because he's my main :D

Btw soed, did you see my name made it into the thread? Ya mad brow?

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Reported, for calling my response to troll response!

Btw still liking this tread, though it is quite long, but the hero tiers, I felt were pretty good and definitely on par while what heroes should or shouldn't be picked first etc!

I do however feel Tychus won't be situational... At best this hero, even when he gets nerfed will still be able to full-fill all roles, as I doubt his skill set will change ;) also because he's my main :D

Btw soed, did you see my name made it into the thread? Ya mad brow?

Ok, here's how I see it when it comes to picking.

 

You have the retard strong heroes that you just need to pick up first:

Drake, Micro, Jackson, Biotron.

Then you have strong heroes, with lots of utility, that fits into most lanes, and also the heroes that has some kind of super strong spellset, but is hard to lane:

Egon, Vorpal, Tosh, Kerrigan, Unix (was picked later on vs the NA times, since they seemed to underrate it.), Toxi (has a decent ultimate, but isn't as strong as the other heroes in my opinion), and the ones that are hard to lane, Vergil, Rancor.

Then comes the situational heroes, that you need to pick to fill up your lineup. The goal with these heroes is to complete your lineup. Most AA heroes are situational, because they often time offer little in terms of utility, the exceptions are the ones mentioned above, that has great laning capabilities, and also utility (kerrigan ulti, Toxi ulti).

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Well look, when I begin to draft, yes there are the super strong heroes you look to ban, or ban certain heroes cause certain players play them well. Once this is done, yes you go for the beast heroes which you stated above! But from there on, it all depends what type of comp I would like my team to be, usually the beast heroes will be banned, leaving maybe one or 2, after that I will either look at a burst team comp, a jungling team comp, tanky/Support for you Hard carry comp, such as having nova in the team, with 4 super tanks... Then I decide or look at their team comp if they have strong initiation, and if we want to have a team that will bait their intiation and counter... Pushing comps are lame imo, but maybe having one in your team (max two) to give the advantage early to the rest of your team... But I feel you have stated this all in your post already, so ye Good Job dude :) Shab for MoM!!!

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Well look, when I begin to draft, yes there are the super strong heroes you look to ban, or ban certain heroes cause certain players play them well. Once this is done, yes you go for the beast heroes which you stated above! But from there on, it all depends what type of comp I would like my team to be, usually the beast heroes will be banned, leaving maybe one or 2, after that I will either look at a burst team comp, a jungling team comp, tanky/Support for you Hard carry comp, such as having nova in the team, with 4 super tanks... Then I decide or look at their team comp if they have strong initiation, and if we want to have a team that will bait their intiation and counter... Pushing comps are lame imo, but maybe having one in your team (max two) to give the advantage early to the rest of your team... But I feel you have stated this all in your post already, so ye Good Job dude :) Shab for MoM!!!

Thing is, if you don't go for heroes with high utility early on in the draft, you give away what you're going for, thus it's easier to ban vs you. If you pick heroes that are hard to lane in the early phase of the draft, then it's easy to ban strong laners vs you, thus you will lose all lanes. Utility heroes early on in the draft allows you more freedom later on in the draft.

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Reported, for calling my response to troll response!

Btw still liking this tread, though it is quite long, but the hero tiers, I felt were pretty good and definitely on par while what heroes should or shouldn't be picked first etc!

I do however feel Tychus won't be situational... At best this hero, even when he gets nerfed will still be able to full-fill all roles, as I doubt his skill set will change ;) also because he's my main :D

Btw soed, did you see my name made it into the thread? Ya mad brow?

 

Where is ur name, fool

 

@OP Shab is like a mule of MOBA. A mule that keeps getting more and more paked with knowledge of the games. One day, I'm sure, this donkey will kollapse under the sheer weight - but until then Shab is like an orakle of the game. A raging, bm, flaming, handful orakle.

 

GG

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Where is ur name, fool

 

@OP Shab is like a mule of MOBA. A mule that keeps getting more and more paked with knowledge of the games. One day, I'm sure, this donkey will kollapse under the sheer weight - but until then Shab is like an orakle of the game. A raging, bm, flaming, handful orakle.

 

GG

 

Yo dagg, its in there, good oke for not reading Shab post thoroughly, and you call yourself his friend! He says I'm a good guy :D so what's up brow?

 

Everything other then that first line, I agree with!

 

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I think this is interesting, but I kind of dislike the system for tournement use. With this system games can be won or lost in the draft itself, regardless of player skill

In a tourney shouldn't everyone be able to put their best foot forward?

I don't see why 2 teams couldn't each have the same char, since player skill would decide the winner.

 

Most people have 1-4 chars they are "good" with and are rather so-so with the rest

 

Just doesn't seem like this system promotes an accurate representation of team skill, Id like to see a tourney where people decide their teams like in pubs, sure you can take advantage of knowing what an opposing team usually likes to play, but at the end of the day you should be able pick the team you feel you can do the best with and give it your all

 

This system feels a bit like you kinda get stuck with something

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I think this is interesting, but I kind of dislike the system for tournement use. With this system games can be won or lost in the draft itself, regardless of player skill

In a tourney shouldn't everyone be able to put their best foot forward?

I don't see why 2 teams couldn't each have the same char, since player skill would decide the winner.

 

Most people have 1-4 chars they are "good" with and are rather so-so with the rest

 

Just doesn't seem like this system promotes an accurate representation of team skill, Id like to see a tourney where people decide their teams like in pubs, sure you can take advantage of knowing what an opposing team usually likes to play, but at the end of the day you should be able pick the team you feel you can do the best with and give it your all

 

This system feels a bit like you kinda get stuck with something

Drafting implements another element of skill into the game. If you're the best, you have to know to play more than 1-3 heroes, and you have to be able to play them well. Knowing your opponent is important, and knowing how to draft properly is important. The drafting system also removes the "randomness" that comes from allowing every hero to be picked, seeing as you can't see the enemies heroes before the picking of heroes is over. So if you gamble on running an all in strat, you can get lucky, or you can get blind countered. If anything, having a drafting system just secures that the better team has a higher chance of winning. Being good with 1 hero just isn't enough to call yourself a good player.

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.

 

Lord.Zyrkhan: A great hero really, but sometimes hard to put in a lane, and there's other hard to put in lane heroes, that you might want instead of him.

 

 

Le gasp! Lord.Zyrkhan is really low rated it seems. Honeslty, i find him a great support for ranged carries such as Toxi or AA infestor...

You just get gp 10 items, and ring and let them get all the feed from the waves, then run in and kill them with your ring aa combo!

Its pretty funny...

If you save for awhile, you can get carry stuff probably later then they did, but you still have it.

I found him laneable bot, top or mid. The only time he wouldnt be good to lane with is somebody who doesnt have much range, but isnt melee. Or they are a very squishy caster... which never happens in Ih im told.

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Le gasp! Lord.Zyrkhan is really low rated it seems. Honeslty, i find him a great support for ranged carries such as Toxi or AA infestor...

You just get gp 10 items, and ring and let them get all the feed from the waves, then run in and kill them with your ring aa combo!

Its pretty funny...

If you save for awhile, you can get carry stuff probably later then they did, but you still have it.

I found him laneable bot, top or mid. The only time he wouldnt be good to lane with is somebody who doesnt have much range, but isnt melee. Or they are a very squishy caster... which never happens in Ih im told.

Lord is quite good atm, it's just that Shab wrote this guide a while ago, and a lot of heroes hawe been shanged sinse, not to mention heroes added =)

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LZ wasn't changed since then I believe. Just people recently realized he can be played as carry as well. For some reason there are huge amount of assumptions about heroes, if they good or bad, how they should be played, what items they should get and so on.

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Mmm, I think his Tenacious Fury got buffed and nerfed across a couple of patches and his ulti just got nerfed throughout. Though I'm not really sure which version he posted this in.

 

Anyway, I don't really want to lock this thread since it's still useful if people ever decided to do proper draft, but try to refrain from questioning this guide's contents since it's outdated in some areas.

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lz was changed once since this was written.

 

considering him a weak pick was due to backlash from the harsh nerfs just prior to the writing of this guide (his heroic passive and E passive both were reduced from damage resist to just physical resist, and his ring duration was reduced by 1 second)

 

since then, there was a buff to his E. Because he is a good counter to the heavy aoe comps people tend to pick now (toxi vergil vorpal etc), and because the new strat of lightning rod + parralax + masamune, people have begun picking lz again.

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On LZ : he wasn't changed lately but the main reason he wasn't played as a carry before wasn't because of his abilities (which have always synergized very well with a carry build, as I said during the beta tests on LZ) but because he had no way to farm properly compared to most carries on top of having a poor laning, which made him rather useless for the first 30 minutes of the game if played as a carry. The new lighting rod and masamune changed both his farming rate and his usefulness in the mid game when built as carry which made the option viable.

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