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MOTHER

AoS 2017 Terrain Preview & Feedback Thread

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A little more than a year ago I set out to update the audio/visual aesthetics of AoS, and for the most part I am grateful for the progress that was made. The changes I made to the map however were very much "make lemonade out of lemons" situation, as I was very limited creatively to try new things or expand the map any further.

 

You may have heard that there is a new AoS map under development, and there is. It's still in an early stage as I was focused on completing my work on the old one before we migrate. As time goes on, I will continuously update this thread (like the old one) with the progress I am making. The terrain itself should be ready sometime next month, then it will just be a matter of importing the old AoS into it smoothly.

 

The reason I am making this thread now is to be as inclusive as possible with you guys. I'd like to know what you would change about the AoS map if you could. What would add to it, or remove from it (let's not talk about current mid please).

 

Let me tell you what's going on so far:

 

1- The map is 208x208 (same size as RoA, current AoS is 184x184)

 

2- About 40-45% of the map is an indoor base environment, and the rest is an outdoors environment. Thematically, it will feel like one side is sieging the other and the other is pushing them back. The aesthetic of the map is inspired by the human colony of Hadley's Hope from the Aliens movie. It won't be dark though.

 

3- It will still be 3 lanes, mid, hard, easy.

 

4- There will be great care taken in creating the 'jungle' areas. Neutral camps will be distributed thoughtfully. There won't be neutral camps close to your base. Jungling will hopefully take on a life of its own with higher risks and rewards. Maybe even roamer heroes will become a real thing.

 

5- It will likely still be Zerg vs Protoss. But this is open to discussion.

 

6- I am thinking of mini-forts or something like the new dota2 'shrines' to be incorporated somehow. Creating more strategic value for map awareness/control.

 

7- The map will not be perfectly symmetrical. Symmetry can be very boring. Each side of the map may have advantages and disadvantages, but it won't be very pronounced.

 

8- Having said that, the boss creeps will be positioned more neutrally.

 

9- And yes, Ward spots will be back.... With a vengeance!

 

I will update this thread with pics very soon. Just know, that nothing is set in stone hence why this thread exists.

 

So let's discuss.

AlexAverskiy, GuZ, Worker and 2 others like this

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Is this going to be another game option (choose between the old and new map)or is it completely doing away with the old. I like the idea of turning turrents into like sieges or bunkers instead of towers.

Edited by BlackXioN

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Doing away with the old, as we would be transplanting the game into the new terrain.

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Eh I personally don't think that's a good Idea, at least at first. I would just make it so there was another game mode(blind pick, then blind pick v.2).

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Eh I personally don't think that's a good Idea, at least at first. I would just make it so there was another game mode(blind pick, then blind pick v.2).

 

That would divide the playerbase, which is already very small.

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We would probably try to in house on the new terrain for a bit to fine tune it before replacing it on the public version.

 

With the jungle how many camps do you think we'll have on each side? I'm thinking about having multiple levels of difficulty for the jungle including a couple that give buffs.

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We would probably try to in house on the new terrain for a bit to fine tune it before replacing it on the public version.

 

 

Absolutely.

 

I initially went in thinking of 8-10 jungle camps per side, but really we can have as many jungle camps as you want.

 

Personally (and aesthetically), I would rather we have one "boss", and many degrees of difficult creeps with a couple that give buffs like you said. It doesn't mean we get rid of Aeon, so much as that we downgrade him to a high tier jungle creep rather than a lower tier boss like he is now.

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Can't be Aeon of Storms without aeon :) But yeah probably like 8 or so camps a side would be good

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Honestly I prefer more heroes than a new map rework.

 

Mother works on terrain stuff and sexy animations. I'm the one who handles heroes and balance.

Worker, OPReN and GuZ like this

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Some updates:

  • Definitely still Zerg x Protoss

  • The indoor/outdoor motif is less prominent due to logistics

  • The tileset of choice is Elscaro City, which is one of the newest in SC2 - an updated, lush and brighter take on the current Endion tileset being used.

  • The 'river' is much larger/wider, and takes on a more lake-like appearance mid. (Nerf Grunty)

  • Midlane highground is gone, both towers will be on the same level tentatively.

  • There will be just 1 satellite structure for each team in their larger jungle, that is intended to function like DotA's Shrines. These could be changed to neutral capturable structures or simply make them destructible after T3s are down. The function of the shrine itself may change. Or this whole thing could get scrapped.

  • There will be a lot more juke paths, hiding spots, - that are not bushes. Seriously.

  • Everything is being designed with ward spots in mind. Vision control/map awareness will be critical.

  • The bosses are on the opposite side of the river, 2/3rds the way down, on highground. Their positioning favors no one and is completely neutral.

  • Still working on the jungles, and trying to make the most out of the space which is much larger than I anticipated. I am hoping to reduce the number of "Terran Jungle Camps" and increase some more 'wild animals'. Aiming for at least 4 tiers of neutrals, 5 if you count bosses.

  • Artifacts are gone. Each team has their own unique artifact now. Which possibly means introducing T4 towers.

  • I am hoping to reduce the number of Rax to one per lane by merging the two into one super-rax. This is to help simplify the siege and avoid any confusion about the functions of each rax.

  • 4 rune spots possibly. Maybe?

  • The map is really much larger than I anticipated. I have to keep using a unit model wherever I edit just to have a better idea of scaling. TP scrolls please!

Everything is of course subject to change (and Adam's final approval). Will have something playable this month as soon as my OCD thinks it's pretty enough.

 

Note: This map will not be used for the Masters Tournament, and will likely be launched immediately after.

Adamantium likes this

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Any pics?

 

It's lacking too many doodads at the moment for pics, but very soon I will upload it on bnet so you guys can better grasp the scale of the changes.

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A4KNwKF.jpg

 

 

Here is a skeletal version of the map so you can get an idea of what's going on.

 

Green areas = Neutral camps

 

Orange S = Secret or Satellite Shops

 

White = Shrine/Fort

 

Cyan Lines = Bushes

 

Pink = Bosses

 

Green A = Artifact

 

Red Dots = Towers

 

 

Jungles are in lowest ground and by default are much riskier. The jungle camps that are in the high ground (adjacent to each team's offlane) will have significantly stronger neutrals, akin to Sub-bosses or DotA's Ancients. Again, everything is subject to change.

WhaleTits, Worker and OPReN like this

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Couple of quick notes - don't have much time to really analyze in depth here:

  • Ramps with Bushes on top are EXTREMELY dangerous to path up - careful where you place them! They are a really good way to make a spot very hard to take aggressive action
  • Ramps up into lanes has a similar effect because not only do you ceed vision, enemy minions are frequently there to spot you out. I notice almost all of your jungle > lane interactions are jungling pathing up a ramp to a lane - this may make aggressive jungle action very difficult and invades exceedingly risky as you can get collapsed on without vision
  • Think about which side jungle you want to be more dangerous to farm or more dangerous to invade - and how the lanes should interract with this! Creates really cool dynamics with the safe/long lane set up. If both sides are extremely risky, you may run into situations where entire categories of jungle champions are unviable due to the existance of heavy invaders
  • Top Down lane matchups are very biased towards one side (your current mid lane) - its much easier to aim upwards than downwards due to the camera angle (you can see more since the camera displays a trapezoidal region due to slant) and screen UI (you can also see more since the UI bar covers the bottom - a non-threatening space if your on the bottom) - I would make mid lane line up diagonally or horizontally instead of vertically, unless you want one side to have significant advantage in mid
  • Bosses on islands in the middle of river are more risky for both sides to attempt - if objectively more fair for both sides. Consider this in their tuning and assess how much action you want around them
  • Would also like to see some thought put into where wards should be placed and where you imagine the heaviest player traffic will be (ie: what routes will be most commonly walked, and by who, and at what game time)

Will try to offer more advice when I have more time, but am still at work. Looks exciting though.

MOTHER likes this

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Thank you Whale for taking the time to write that. Always appreciate your insight.

 

- Totally agree about the bush ramps, currently only 2 ramps have bushes on top and those are next to the T1 safelane towers of each side. It's intended to be a double edged sword for that lane.

 

- The idea of putting jungles on low ground is intentional to make jungling much more risky. But this is mostly just the larger safe lane jungles. The offlane side jungles while smaller, are much safer to farm because they are on mid or high ground, but the neutrals there will also be harder to kill. There is still enough distance between the ramps and the actual lanes so that a jungle invasion against the enemy lane is very possible.

 

- Safe lane jungle = dangerous to farm, larger, but many more low to mid tier neutrals to farm quickly (due to their proximity). Offlane jungle, safer to farm, smaller, but neutrals are higher tiers.

 

- Totally agree here. Just trying to do something different from the classic diagonal and I did second guess myself (why change a winning formula?). The idea I guess comes from wanting to increase the pathing in midlane just a bit (straight line = shorter) and also so that all lanes are now top-down in a way. If the set up ends up favoring one side too much during beta, you bet I'll whip up a diagonal mid.

 

- Yeah this is a dilemma. I think upping the reward of bosses could make action more attractive, but I can't predict this part here because we've never attempted two neutral river bosses before.

 

- I'm obsessed with the ward spots. I refuse to move on any other parts of the design til I am sure that I am positioning them correcting. I would love to create via regions/triggers the ability to increase ward vision range by 25% at least if placed on ward spots. It would definitely make them more meaningful.

 

Btw I'm continuously updating a version of the terrain in the dropbox if you'd like to have a closer look whenever you have spare time. <3

 

 

General FYI; I don't want to make this map feel too strange to our playerbase, as it must still feel like AoS. But I think by default this map will impose the need for a support or roamer role and early game items that favor those roles specifically. We'll probably need a jungler item or two. Due to its size, I also cannot possibly imagine this map without new tools of mobility such as consumable transports, teleport items, or a more easily attainable transport talent.

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Whale can't you look at this at work and claim you're benchmarking 'competition'? Lol

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Whale can't you look at this at work and claim you're benchmarking 'competition'? Lol

 

It's not competition. It's a painting on a canvas, and Whale is a good art critic. :p

Adamantium likes this

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