MOTHER

Alternate AoS Idealog

254 posts in this topic

This prospective changelog is intended to compile ideas that are primarily meant to focus on:

  • Consistency in themes and hero roles; keeping every hero as unique and defined/refined as possible.
  • Quality of Life changes.
  • Introducing fresh new ideas/mechanics to AoS (specific to heroes or general to the game); Reinventing, reimagining, and/or streamlining old ones.
  • Fixes & corrections.
  • Balance (duh!).

As our discussions progress here or elsewhere in the forums, I will try to continually update this changelog with suggestions people make for easy access and readability. If you have any particular ideas that you think will freshen up AoS that are not necessarily motivated by game balance, please giff me. More importantly however, GIFF ADAM YOUR POSITIVE ENERGY FOR MOTIVATION!!!! >____>

 

This should go without saying but all numerical values used in this changelog are subject to balance, so do not focus on them in any of your criticisms please.

 

Game

 

Rating/Ranking System

Replaced with basic system that rewards players that play the game from start to finish (not leaving). Primarily geared towards pub community and fostering a friendlier environment. Winning grants rank points, losing grants none, and quitting delivers a severe loss of points as a penalty.

 

Example:

 

Bronze Ranks = 0 - 1000

Silver Ranks = 1000 - 2000

Gold Ranks = 2000 - 4000 (Alt Skin 2 for heroes accessible if available)

Platinum Rank = 4000 - 8000 (Alt Skin 3 for heroes accessible if available)

Diamond Rank = +10000 (Special Alt skin 4 with unique effects for heroes accessible if available and/or Tournament Edition Alts.)

 

Starting Points = 250

Winning Points = +50

Losing Points = 0

Quitting = -100

 

New "-Commend X" Command

Following the implementation of the previous rating system, the "-Commend X" command ought to be introduced, where X represents the player number.

 

Essentially, every player can use this command once per game, and it grants the player of their choice bonus rating points. Going by the numbers used in the previous example, the amount of points awarded would be something like "+15". The idea behind this is an extension of the new rating system and its intention to foster goodwill in pubs and reward players for displaying positive qualities like skill, sportsmanship, etc.

 

A player may commend any player on either team except themselves (So you can commend a worthy opponent for example). The command is not available in test mode, and you may not commend the same player twice in a row.

 

I considered the antithesis of this command ("-report") but this isn't the kind of community we want.

 

"-Kick" Command Conditions

The conditions that allow for a player to be kicked right now are too lenient, and easy to circumvent by trolls. We should extend these conditions to include players who have not gained any XP in X amount of time.

 

No XP gained should count for no activity. XP gained from towers or bosses should not count towards this.

 

 

Structures

 

Tower Denying

When towers' health drops below 10% you can deny them by attacking them. Denying towers halves the bounty the enemy team receives for the tower and deprives them of any potential XP.

 

'Base Under Attack' Alert

Currently the game is very ineffective at alerting players that your towers or any of your structures for that matter are being attacked. I suggest that a text based all-caps bold red text alerts the player (at the bottom of the screen where the chat log is not on top). I would also add a unique 'alarm' sound that is triggered with this event. To avoid it becoming annoying, this event can only triggered once every 30 or 60 seconds.

 

Runes

 

 

New River Runes

 

Sneeky (Lab Bot) - Grants temporary true cloak.

 

River Runes now spawn at fixed intervals of 120 seconds (even numbered minutes, e.g. 02:00, 04:00, 06:00, etc.) starting at the 2 minute mark of the game clock (not real time).

 

New Cliff Runes

 

There are two new rune spots in AoS 7.00 that are located on one of the hills between each team's mid and offlane. These two form a pair of runes independent of River Runes and randomly spawn at either locations at fixed intervals of 360 seconds (game time). Unlike River Runes, Cliff Runes grant a team bonus for to the team that claim it.

 

Medikit - Grants 10% Max Health to all Allied Heroes instantly.

Energon Cube - Grants 15% Max Energy to all Allied Heroes instantly.

Chrono-Trigger - Grants 10% Time for 10 Seconds to all Allied Heroes instantly.

High Yield Minerals - Grants 100 Minerals to all Allied Heroes Instantly.

 

 

Bosses

 

Aeon - Now provides ample scaling cash and XP bonus to team that kills it.

 

Daggoth - Provides a very modest cash bonus or XP to team that kills it. However it now also provides temporary scaling stronger buff and reduced respawn time (scaling, up to 50% reduced respawn time) to team that kills it.

 

Talents

 

 

 

 

 

In the new talent system, you start the game with 3 talent points. You gain an additional talent point at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18.

 

There are 3 talent trees; Offense, Defense, Utility.

 

Each talent tree has 6 tiers. Some tiers contain 1 talent, some contain 2, and some contain 3. But you must always choose only 1 of these to climb up that tree.

 

So it would look like this:

 

Offense Talent tree

 

Tier 1: Talent 1

Tier 2: Talent 2a and Talent 2b - CHOOSE ONE

Tier 3: Talent 3

Tier 4: Talent 4a and Talent 4b - CHOOSE ONE

Tier 5: Talent 5

Tier 6: Talent 6a, Talent 6b, and Talent 6c. - CHOOSE ONE

 

All these talents are passive.

 

However there are up to 3 active talents which are Chronoboost, Recover, and Recall. To access them you must put 1 talent point in the first tier of each of the 3 trees. So you don't necessarily have to have all 3 active talents. You could end up with only 2 of the 3.

 

All 3 active talents automatically upgrade whenever you reach tiers 3 and 6 of their respective trees.

 

Chronoboost for example, grants 8% Time at Tier 1, 16% at Tier 3, and 24% at tier 6 of the offense talent tree.

 

Recall for example, grants you the standard recall at tier 1, Transport (structures only) at Tier 3, and Advanced Transport (structures, units, and allied heroes) at Tier 6.

 

The total number of talent points you can hope to gain and use in 1 game is 9; 3 at the start, and 6 you gain through out the game. Once you put a point in a talent, the point is locked and you can't go back. However, you can put points through the out the game.

 

The talents themselves will scale and reflect their tiers appropriately.

 

nReGmvl.png

 

 

 

 

Shop

 

The following items will now notify your allies upon purchase:

Flare

Smokescreen

Kassia Crystal

Korhal Vanguard

Coat of Arms

Spell Buffer

Chilling Artifact

Omniscience

 

Complete Sale of Leaver's Items

The game will now sell a leaver's items automatically, even if they are outside his or her inventory when they leave.

 

Limited Full Resale Value

If you sell an item within a short amount of purchasing it (e.g. 20-30 seconds or less), you will be reimbursed its full price instead of half.

 

Items

 

Defibrillator (New)

1 charge consumable. Once consumed, hero respawn timer is reduced by 40% for duration. Lasts 240 seconds. Non-stacking. Suggested cost = 2000.

Defibrillators are limited by a stock count of 3 and replenish time is 360 seconds

 

Whale Breast (New)

Grants: 75 health and energy stats.

1 charge consumable. Once consumed, instantly grants 150 health and energy (and destroys itself from your inventory).

 

Xel'Naga Cuirass (Rework)

Components: Neosteel Vestments, Nullifier, Accelerator.

Grants: 5% MS, Spell and Physical Armor

Unique: Travel 2 - Grants an additional 10% Movement speed when you have not taken damage from enemy heroes or towers in the last 15 seconds.

 

Lion's Bane (Rework)

Components: Accelerator, Cybernetic Implants, Flesh Hammer

Suggested Price: 3650

Grants: 5% movement speed, STR, and CDR

Unique: Roam 2 - Grants an additional 15% Movement (total 20%) if within 30u units of a Allied Structures.

 

Ancient Rune

Replace 2x Pulse Regenerators with 1x Soul Sustainer, then adjust the sum of stats accordingly.

 

Organic Carapace

New Unique Passive - Restores 4% Max Health Per Second when you have not taken damage in the last 5 seconds.

 

Hunter's Hatchet

Hatchet Toss (New Active): Deals 15% current health as physical damage to any non-heroic, non-massive target. Destroys wards instantly. 4u Cast range. 60 second cooldown.

 

Warp Fragment (New)

Suggested Price: 150

Grants: Single use consumables with a 90 second shared cooldown. Allows you to teleport to allied structures only after 7 second channel time.

 

Recon Flare Gun (New)

Components: Prophecy Stone, Flare Gun

Suggested Price: 3000

Grants: Grants Health, Energy, Health Regen, Energy Regen, and INT

Unique: Reconnaissance Flare (Active): Fires a flare shot at a target location, granting 10u flying vision over the area for 40 seconds. 2 charges. 60 second cooldown.

 

Tesla Adamantium (New)

Components: 2x Neosteel Vestment, Space Battery

Suggested Price: 3000-3300

Grants: Armor, Energy, Energy Regeneration.

Unique: Converts 15% of all incoming damage into energy and converts 15% if all energy spent into Health.

 

Infinity Gauntlet (New)

Components: Soul Engine, Soul Sustainer, Powerstone

Suggested Price: 3000-3300

Grants: CDR, MS, Energy Regeneration, Energy, Health,

Unique: Gains a stack for every hero kill or assist. Each stack grants 3HP/s and 1.5 Energy/s, up to 15 stacks. Upon death, consumes 1/3 of stacks and grants 60 health and 40 energy per stack consumed to allies in a 10u.

 

Accelerator (New)

Suggested Price: 400

Grants: 5% movement speed

Unique: Travel 1 - Grants an additional 5% Movement speed when you have not taken damage from enemy heroes or towers in the last 15 seconds.

 

Pacifist Accelerator (New)

Components: Accelerator, Neosteel Vestments, Cell Regenerator.

Suggested Price: 1250

Grants: 5% Movement Speed, Armor, and +3 Health Regeneration.

Unique: Roam 1 - Grants an additional 15% Movement (total 20%) and an additional 9 Health regeneration (total 12) when you haven't attacked* or been attacked in the last 15 seconds.

*Casting spells does not break the unique passive.

 

Rift Generator Alpha (New)

Components: Xel'Naga Cuirass

Suggest Price: 3000

Grants: 10% Movement Speed, Additional Spell and Physical Armor

Unique (Passive): Travel 3 - Grants an additional 15% Movement speed (Total 25%) when you have not taken damage from enemy heroes or towers in the last 15 seconds.

Unique (Active): Transport 1 - Teleport to allied structures. 90 second cooldown (shared with Warp Fragment)

 

Rift Generator Omega (New)

Components: Xel'Naga Cuirass

Suggested Price: 4200

Grants: 10% Movement Speed, Additional Spell and Physical Armor

Unique (Passive): Travel 3 - Grants an additional 15% Movement speed (Total 25%) when you have not taken damage from enemy heroes or towers in the last 15 seconds.

Unique (Active): Transport 2 - Teleport to allied structures, units, and heroes. 90 second cooldown (shared with Warp Fragment)

 

Zerg Symbiosis (Side Shop Only)

Grants: +5 'Primary Attribute', 10 Armor, 0.25% Max Health and Energy Regeneration

Unique [Passive]: Grants allies in a 10u radius 15%/7.5% lifesteal if they are melee/ranged.

Heroes

 

Rancor

HP - Rangefinder Oculus; "Rancor now has +25% sight range."

 

Garamond

HP - SCV's explode if they more than 12u away from Garamond.

Q - Now slows turn-rate in addition to movement speed.

 

Null

HP - Chrono Distortion; “Whenever Allied heroes in a 10u radius cast an ability, they gain 2% Timescale for 3s. While enemies in a 10u radius lose 2% Timescale for 3s whenever they cast an ability. Stacks with itself up to 4 times.“

 

Biotron

W - Cannibalize (Target Allied Unit) - Biotron randomly cannibalizes (0.5/1/1.5/2% of targets' Max Health/Energy) from up to 8/10/12/14 all units in 12u search radius around himself, and uses it on a target allied unit to regenerate their health/energy. The amount of health and energy that is regenerated is the sum total of all the cannibalized health and energy.

Infested Civilians affected will be killed instantly and offer health/energy equal to (1/2/3/4% of Biotron's Max Health/Energy).

Units inside the search radius are selected at random, and may include Allied units.

The Max Health/Energy that is stolen from units inside search radius is removed instantly from their pools (no mitigation) but is never lethal.

Cast range is 6u

 

Raynor (Rework)

HP - Confident Aim; Raynor's autoattacks, E and R abilities reduce his cool downs by 1, 2, and 4 seconds respectively when hitting enemy heroes. This reduction is doubled to 2, 4, and 8 seconds respectively if the target enemy hero was Marked for Death.

E - Hyperion; Raynor calls down the Hyperion to warp in and bombard a target area (4u radius) for 6s. The Hyperion attacks enemies randomly, deals 10*LVL Spell Damage per strike, and each strike slows by enemies hit by 20/30/40/50% for 2 seconds. Cast range 8/16/24/32.

The Hyperion is a flying unit, has 8u flying vision, is invulnerable to all everything but towers.

R - Killshot; Raynor takes aim and channels up to 5 seconds before firing a projectile at a target direction that strikes the first enemy hero in its line of path. The projectile deals 200/300/400 + (100% INT) spell damage and an additional 30/40/50 + (10% INT) spell damage per second channeled. Cast range is 15u + 2u/3u/4u distance per second channeled. Reactivate to fire early. Move to cancel channel.

 

Rory

HP - Whiskey Breath; “Spell damage on enemies in a 12u radius is amplified by a maximum of 15% and a minimum of 3% based on how close enemies are to Rory.”

 

Voltron Leo

HP - Apex Predator; Leo and nearby allies gain 7.5% bonus movement speed. This effect is doubled when Leo is attacking an enemy hero.

 

Lord Zyrkhan

HP - Charisma; Nearby allies gain +3 bonus spell armor for 5s every time LZ is damaged. Refreshing and stacking up to 5 times. This effect is doubled during Heart of Aiur.

 

Narud (Rework)

HP - Formerly his Q (Loci of Power). Materializes a Loci of Power at a target point. Loci of Power are invulnerable except to towers, and interact with Narud's other abilities. Narud can have up to 3 Loci on the battlefield at any given time and can hold 6 charges of Loci of Power. Recharge time is 4s.

Hotkey V to activate. Q to deploy.

Q - Formerly his R (Starburst Stream). While toggled on, all Loci of Power in a 10u radius emit beams that connect them to one another. Enemies caught in these beams take 25/50/75/100 + (33% INT) Spell Damage per second. Consumes 25/35/45/55+(2% of Max Energy) per second.

Hotkey R to toggle on/off.

E - When activated, all Loci of Power in a 10u radius will pull enemies in a 2/2.5/3/3.5u radius towards them and slow their movement speed by 50% for 3 seconds. Enemies are always pulled towards the Loci of Power that is closest to them.

R - Formerly his heroic passive (Transcendence). On death, Narud materializes his true form for 7/8/9 seconds. During this time he is invulnerable but immobile, he gains Maximum Energy, +50/75/100% cooldown reduction, +5u/10u/15u Cast Range, and may cast any of his abilities.

 

Egon (Rework)

Q - No charges and cooldown reduced to 7s at all levels. Duration remains the same. Can no longer target enemy units.

Now causes target ally's attacks to deal 40/50/60/70 + (10% INT) + (0.65*[Casts on Target Ally]).

W - Can no longer be cast on enemy units. Instead, Proton Pack will reduce enemy Physical/Spell resistance and movement/attack speed by 25/30/35/40% for 2 seconds when they attack target ally.

E - Remade into new single target ability.

When used on an allied hero Hyper Energy will replenish 50/100/150/200 (+4% Target's Max Energy[per 10 casts on target allied unit]), remove debuffs, and deal spell damage to enemies equal to 100% of energy replenished in a 4u radius area around allied target.

Cooldown reduced to 8s at all levels and cast range increased to 7

R - Stun rescaled from 1.5s to 1/1.5/2s. Timescale increased to 15/25/35% (+2% Timescale[per 10 casts on target allied unit]). Cast range improved by 2u. No longer amplifies damage whatsoever.

 

Khyrak (Rework)

HP – Khyrak’s abilities apply ‘Bleed’ debuff on enemies for 3 seconds. Whenever a bleeding enemy moves, they are revealed to Khyrak, the debuff refreshes, and they take 5% current health physical damage per second. Khyrak gains 20% movement speed when he is within 12u radius of a bleeding enemy.

R - Stampede; Khyrak and allied heroes in a 15/30/60u radius gain maximum movement speed for 4 seconds. While under this effect, Khyrak and allies' collision side is reduced to 0, allowing them to move through units and trample them.

Trampled units are slowed by 100% for 1.5s and are dealt (100/150/200% STR) Physical Damage. Enemies may only be trampled once per cast. 90 second cooldown.

 

Stukov

E - Heal now also scales with (1% Max Energy) to better synergize with heroic passive and to further motivate the caster/bruiser role.

R - No longer heals or reduces cooldown when Plague Ball caught. Instead, Stukov will temporarily gain Max Health equal to 100% of damage dealt when he catches the ball. Max Health bonus lasts 120 seconds.

 

Marine King

E - Remove V active ability. E now gains new active ability in additional to its passive. Upon activation, Marine King sacrifices 20% current health, granting himself and all allied units affected by Mob Mentality double the current level passive weapon speed bonus and +25% movement speed for 6 seconds.

 

Cyprus

STR gain per level reduced from 4 to 3.

HP - Magnetize; Basic attacks, W, and R all apply a stack of "Magnetized" on enemies, up to 4 stacks. Each stack of Magnetize reduces the movement speed of affected units by 8% whenever they are within 2.5 units Cyprus' Stone Pillars. Stacks last 10 seconds and refresh.

W - Now pushes enemies affected around Cyprus 4u away from him. If enemies are pushed into a Stone Pillar, they gain a stack of 'Magnetized'.

 

Grunty

R - Grunty now gains 6/10/14% movement speed per second spent in the river, capping at 30/50/72% after 5 seconds, lasting up to 8 seconds and refreshes while in the the river.

 

Terminus

HP - Now deals 55-110% weapon damage in a line depending on how close you are to Terminus. The closer you are the higher the damage.

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NARUD is really boring hero!!

 

R- fixed creeps!

Q - work, but not work R! only Heores!

 

i dont like NARUD! i think better rework NARUD! get AA and new ability!!!!!

Edited by IljaHi

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Most of it is pretty good but if we are fixing stuff i would just get rid of veteran, bonus xp cuz you picked a talent is dumb.

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Oi

I think fitness needs rework, although the HP gain got Nerfed, it doesn't feel like a choice of picking it and Viron is obviously not fit when he gets it

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Most of it is pretty good but if we are fixing stuff i would just get rid of veteran, bonus xp cuz you picked a talent is dumb.

 

I agree that Veteran is shap, but the argument that you get a 'bonus cuz you picked a talent is dumb' could realistically be made for most talents.

 

I would prefer a different talent altogether, but for now I shifted the weight of veteran to heroic XP gain. Meaning the 'veteran' player will only be truly rewarded with the XP bonus if they are an aggressive player that actively seeks out and kills/assists in killing enemy heroes. Farming/Ricing 'veteran' players won't yield nearly as much benefit as before.

 

So it's a little bit less braindead than it is now if I may say so.

Edited by Jessika

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Veteran is not shap

You reaches lvl 6 before other heroes do and it's pretty huge

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Veteran is not shap

You reaches lvl 6 before other heroes do and it's pretty huge

 

I didn't mean Veteran was shap in the sense that it was a bad talent. I meant it was bad for the game (broke, op, too strong, needs a remake, needs nerfs etc.).

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I like everything but 2 or 3 things

 

I'd honestly just rework veteran

Ancient rune would be way too strong

Flares is already op in my opinion after all the buffs and now having 6 of them is too much, Its fine as it is.

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Talents

 

Youth

+100 Energy -> +150 Energy

 

 

 

 

Gabriel.Tosh

 

[R] - Mad Craving

 

Energy Cost: 100/150/200 > 80 / 100 / 120

 

why costs a lot of mana? Better reduce! Tosh's attackers!

 

 

Balrog.Brutalizer

 

[R] - Bloodbath

 

Energy Cost: 125/175/225

 

also costs a lot of energy!!!!!!!!!!

 

Barlog have 630 energy ( without items) ! If he eats and get more life! 6 time * 225 Energy = 1350 Energy

 

My suggestion:

 

Energy Cost: 125/175/225 - > 120 / 140 / 160

 

Non-heroic energy cost half 60 / 70 / 80 (120 / 140 / 160) and Cooldown: 30 seconds half -> 15 secounds!!!!!

 

Example: He eats 6* 80 (Energy Cost) = 480 is fine! 630 energy - 480 enegry = rest 150 energy!

 

 

[W] - Sonic Screech

 

Spell Damage: 50/ 80/ 110/ 140 (+80%INT) >>> 100% INT

Edited by IljaHi

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I'd honestly just rework veteran

Ancient rune would be way too strong

Flares is already op in my opinion after all the buffs and now having 6 of them is too much, Its fine as it is.

 

For Veteran, the only way I can think of to keep with the "XP talent" theme without breaking the game is if the XP bonus is strictly from hero kills and assists. I believe it is the XP bonus from creeps and jungling that really tips the scales. This way at least, Veteran will be completely useless if you are actually NOT a veteran and are unable to sustain the XP bonus through ganks.

 

For Ancient Rune, yes you are right. I did the math just now and this can easily snowball out of control. I still have hope for this item so I'll think of something else.

 

For Flares, how about restructuring the item to be like boundary scanner. Rename it to 'Flares', 1 purchase = 3 charges. Price = 90.

 

 

There is a bunch of heroic passives that I am looking into right now that I believe need refreshing because they are either too bland/boring/outdated, too passive (zero interaction or synergy with the hero's spell kit), and/or just plain unthematic. Will post what I mean later.

 

I don't know if you noticed, but the intent behind some of these changes is to increase the pace of the game (thereby reducing real game time) since this was one of the main complaints echoed by several of you guys. But I'm trying to do it without compromising Adam's adjustments to the towers. I think mainly the changes proposed to the bosses, siege creeps, and the addition of transport/beacons could really create for a more action packed/dynamic experience with more risks and rewards in a way.

Edited by Jessika

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You realized this was developed to help junglers too right? Because junglers normally fall behind on laners, I believe this change would kill jungling.

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You realized this was developed to help junglers too right? Because junglers normally fall behind on laners, I believe this change would kill jungling.

 

No I didn't take that into consideration to be honest. But it's clear that Veteran has been corrupted beyond its original purpose and is being abused now, is it not?

 

What if the jungle creep XP is buffed slightly to compensate IF this proposed change cripples jungling like you say? Or even allow Veteran to give XP bonus from neutrals and heroes but not from lane creeps. I believe this could also be possible.

Edited by Jessika

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just make vet give you +1 attribute for every kill or assist you get. GG

 

Excellent idea. I will edit it in immediately.

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I MEAN It gives something that last the whole game, once you reach 18 vet is a useless talent. Plus it fits the name more.

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I don't think that is the purpose of talents. The T1 and to some extent T2 talents are meant to give you a humble buff to get you through the early-mid game, by covering some weaknesses in your hero/playstyle or by complimenting the strengths of your hero/playstyle. The only talents that should have any relevance for most of the game are the T3 talents IMO. The rest are meant to become obsolete 30-45+ mins into the game. It's the circle of life.

Edited by Jessika

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Zeal is useful the whole time during the game, amp spell damage is usefull the whole time alone with lifesteal, weapon speed, armor spell resistance is usefull whole time along with zeal, CD (tier 1) is def useful the whole time along with over lord to help against wave clear.....soooooooo rethink that statement. The only ones only useful early is wealth, youth , maybe weapon damage.

Edited by BlackXioN

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Zeal is useful the whole time during the game, amp spell damage is usefull the whole time alone with lifesteal, weapon speed, armor spell resistance is usefull whole time along with zeal, CD (tier 1) is def useful the whole time along with over lord to help against wave clear.....soooooooo rethink that statement. The only ones only useful early is wealth, youth , maybe weapon damage.

 

When you wanna put it that way, all the talents are of some use at all stages of the game. But are they really as relevant to you when you are 6 slotted and level 18? Are they significant? Just because some of them scale, doesn't mean they singularly matter. The spell amp talent for example is only really useful lategame if you intend it to be part of an ensemble of spell amps like gravity, argus, etc. On their own the talents that scale, scale poorly, but could potentially work as part of a build or a combo. For the most part though, my point still stands. T1 and T2 talents' impact is present like you said but ultimately negligible past early-mid game - as God EKCO Whale Adam intended.

Edited by Jessika

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I mean all except vet since it stop at 18, so you kinda just proved my point :), yes all still do SOMETHING even if its a smaller amount it still carries all game.

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I mean all except vet since it stop at 18, so you kinda just proved my point :), yes all still do SOMETHING even if its a smaller amount it still carries all game.

 

You can't measure the value or strength of something simply by how long it lasts.

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You could then say wealth only lasts until you have more money than you know what to do with... weapon speed talent only lasts until you hit the cap... I like Jessikas thought process on this subject. I typically don't like to get talents that arnt useful at level 18 but that's more of a personal choice when I know other talents would help me out more early game.

 

What if we changed fitness to a higher tier? That way you couldn't just be like, oh hey one point in fitness for that OP health bonus. Or turned it into a shield that recharges at a low rate, still protecting low hp heroes from burst but not scaling with certain heroes abilities and would seem less attractive to tanks. Although maybe abuseable with immortal... but hey maybe that's strategy :)

Edited by Jaysi
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